Abolish the 1/4 Blood Quantum? YES or NO

Per your request for a new post

How about a category asking citizens how they feel about abolishing the 1/4 blood quantum required to run for office. Perhaps enabling all 80,000+ citizens to run for office would help turn around our flailing nation.

64 thoughts on “Abolish the 1/4 Blood Quantum? YES or NO”

  1. We don’t need to change the quantum, its there for a reason. We can’t have stehectes or stulusties running our tribe. To be Creek is to know the language, where you come from and your culture. Its a tragedy to be losing our identity.

    1. We need to stop being racist against our own citizens. You say you can’t have “white people” or “black people” running our tribe. You are looking at skin color and not at culture. Many black and white Creeks speak our language. They also help in their communities. They also try to help promote our tribe. We have had many leaders who despite speaking the language and coming from a traditional background,come in and steal us blind, lie and cheat, and make us the embarrassment of Indian Nations.
      I will say it looks good to have a recognizable Creek as the leader of our tribe. But we need more than a Creek Talking Pretty Face to move this tribe into the future.
      It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white (to quote MJ) what counts is having the best interest of Creek Nation and having a plan and the ability to build up and protect our culture and values.
      Blood quantum is not an accurate measure of your ability to lead our nation. That has been proven over and over.
      What we need to do is start having more standards than blood quantum.

    2. You know what is funny Russell about your comment, you are probably married to a white or black person, Look at your tribe, you are all married to white or black and not your own people. How funny LOL your council men (most of them if not all) , are prejudice and they are married to white women or men. Hahahahah funny and you creek people talk against your own family. How ironic (don’t you think) .

      1. Ur post is not ironic, it’s sad and backward. Keep your racist comments to yourself. Most of the council are prejudice?!?! Then roll out a statement like that… you must be a special kind of stupid! Return to the underside of the rock you crawled from.

  2. The blood quantum must remain for certain positions and for elected positions. It’s now 1/4 and I like that but would consider a drop to 1/8 but nor further.

    I’m not against employment of non Creeks. We need to hire qualified people, but to run our tribe we need Creeks.

  3. I’m not sorry I opened up the Blood Quantum issue. But it needs to be discussed. I agree we do need to look very closely at the 1/4th requirement to hold office. But look at it this way. Do you want a person qualified, who is 1/4 Muscogee, 1/2 Cherokee, and 1/4 Navajo to be Principal Chief of the Muscogee Nation?? That could happen. Oh, by the way I have a Master Degree. and over half Blood.

    1. Why don’t you run for the next election? Don’t be confused, it takes something different than a Masters degree to be the chief. The thinking of we need people who have degrees and over half blood is completely backwards.

    2. I’m not discrediting your degree by any means, However last administration we had people with PhDs and masters and they contributed to the mess we are in now. I’d much rather hire or elect somebody based on their years experience than a couple letters behind their last name. Although there are certain positions when you need people with masters and PhDs.

  4. It is really hard to get a job at Muscogee Nation even if you have a degree. Most of the time the person who is doing the interviewing is less qualified than the person who is making the application.

    1. Carrie, I can relate to that dilemma as well. I have an excellent resume, a degree, and several certifications, and in years and hundreds of applications, I’ve been granted only 2 interviews. Every job that MCN has come close to offering me would be a 20-30,000.00 a year pay cut. Needless to say, they will not be retaining me for employment with laughable offers like that. In addition, the last interview I had was back in the summer, a meeting which I dressed in pressed slacks, a dress shirt and polished shoes, and the interviewer was dressed in flip flops and capris. I knew at that moment that I would not accept the position if offered. I’ve learned one thing in the interview process, its not just the company interviewing you, but you are interviewing them just as equally. The interviewer should always be dressed as appropriately as the candidate, that’s just professionalism. Speaking of degrees, if the tribe requires our workforce to have degrees, shouldn’t the chiefs and council members have 4 year degrees as well?? That is one that truly baffles me…

      1. Hello. Pja78 I so agree with you on the way employees dress now!!It is so embarrassing !!When I was on the switch board we dressed professionally!! There is no pride at Mvskoke Nation!!!JUST THE WAY THEY DRESS!!

      2. That would definitely be a big factor to consider when applying for a job. Let’s get real here. Today I say the office manager/receptionist eating at the desk and some guy with a doorag on his head was behind the desk in the reception area eating lunch with her at the Koweta clinic. This is also the administration area. Becky Whitlow was gone again. Why is it the policy applies to to some employees and not the office manager. There was a patient in that area looking at the artwork on the wall. Unprofessional, YES!

    2. I agree. We have people in the department of health that are not qualified to lead or manage. But it’s who you are related to or who you know. How do you think we got in this mess? It’s a sad situation. I’m for hiring citizens that are Creek but we also need people that know something about the department of health.
      I don’t see where Shoneen or Rhonda have set the world on fire.

  5. It is really hard to get a job at Muscogee Nation even if you have a degree. Most of the time the person who is doing the interviewing is less qualified than the person who is making the application. The interviewer is afraid to hire someone more qualified because they are afraid they will take their jobs. I know I have tried for several jobs that I am qualified for but have been told you are over qualified. I said I don’t care I need a Job. I am a citizen over half blood.

  6. The blood quantum has slowed progress in our tribe to say the least. As long as we have this law in place, there will be no new ideas, no young leadership, and therefore no longevity for the tribe. It is time our tribe stop looking at those who are less than half or less than 1/4 as imposters or outsiders. Many who are not of high blood quantum have taken steps to learn the language, our culture, and our history, which is more than I can say for many of the ones who are in power now. Being of high blood quantum does not make one a leader, nor does it make one moral. Look at the last administration, which drives home my point. Its time we stop recycling the same employees, same cabinet members, and same council members, and usher in new blood. The future lies with educated and innovative thinkers, with those who want to move the tribe forward and prosper everyone, not just their own friends and family. We should observe what other tribes are doing; most have done away with the blood quantum, and their headlines are usually about prosperous new endeavors, and our headlines are about a broken health care system and corrupt officials. Why should we be afraid to let in those who are less than 1/4? Will they steal from us anymore than the ones who are already there? Will they make worse business decisions than those currently running things? Will they make worse real estate investments than those who are doing so now? I highly doubt it. The fact is, we are limiting ourselves and doing the tribe a great injustice by restricting members due to blood quantum. Its time to organize and make a change so we can truly be out with the old and in with the new.

    1. We need to see the outrageous overpaid salaries and bonuses at River Spirit for top management. Anybody have any numbers? I hear Jerry Floyd makes more than his brother as the chief. And could buy 2 cars with one bonus check. Can you imagine what the CEO makes? Council members need to investigate. It’s time for someone to blow the whistle.

      1. The council at our senior meeting told us they. Cannot do anything about employee conducts!!They cannot do anything but spend our money on school football !duh!!!!

    2. Please examine the other 5 Tribes and see if they have a blood quantum.
      Always remember previous Creek Chiefs have lacked the blood quantum to serve today.

  7. If you’re going to throw someone’s name out there at least do your research (look in the tribes newspaper at salaries listed per person) you would see that the person you listed is one of the lowest paid admin asst’s and she has worked for the tribe for years. There are several others making more than her that have no degree/less experience.

    1. concerned creek!!Why bother with blood quantum??The council is broken and does not give a shit about the tribe they break all the laws of creek nation they put their children to work ,they let other tribes set on the council Wagoner has a member from Kialegbe set on the council they allow members from Thlopthllocco,Kiegee,Alabama vote in our election s.They are responsible for all the shit GT has put on us.Just remember their names on election day!!They lied to us!!

  8. I think that Creek Nation should pay attention to what our departments harp on every day – higher education. Why tell students to further their education and get a college degree, when they could come back to Creek Nation and make $30K+ annually without a degree? What is this telling our young people? If you have an education Mvskoke citizen with experience, yes, they should be preferred. However, Creek Nation needs to have educated people across the board, especially in appointed positions, as well as manager/director positions. Chief Floyd needs to seriously re-evaluate salaries and look at who is making the high dollars and do they really deserve it. The Creek citizens who are going off to college or further their education don’t want to come back and work for the tribe because they have to deal with incompetent people holding management positions. How about we treat our people with respect and be supportive of each other? Let’s send our students to college, get them educated, and welcome them to come back where they will be treated fairly. Let’s stop placing blame on administrations and just fix the problems. Why are we throwing our own people under the bus every time they make a mistake? Are we all perfect? Absolutely not. So let’s teach our young people how important a higher education is and get them to come back and work for the Nation. After all, they are the future. Re-evaluating salaries, respecting all Mvskoke citizens, giving education the recognition it deserves, and making our ancestors proud is what Creek Nation needs to focus on.

  9. Article 3 section 4 should be amended to state all Muscogee Creek Citizens by blood are considered full citizens with all rights and responsibilities including the right to hold office.

  10. Alot of people with big degrees have no common sense, so do we need people with education and no common sense or someone with common sense and experience. What degree does woody anderson have making $200,000 a year and his secretary making $100,000. What degree does chris azbell have or koko lowe, what I’m saying is are they the person for the job and the money they make? Also, all of these people that were laid off at health administration, what degrees did they have and did seconds chiefs kids get laid off also. We are so big on degrees and then blood quantum , what is it we want, never satisfied.

    1. Hello Mvskokecitizenl
      How money citizens are

      registered to vote in

      the state election?Blood quantum will not mean thing if we do not vote our land and wafter rights are now on the line be careful on how you vote!!
      But please vote!!!

  11. Its overdue to amend the constitution. The antiquated prohibitions of blood quantum is now harming us than helping. The majority of the voters are now less than .25…the harsh reality is coming for the council members who refuse to write legislation for an amendment. If the people do this under article VI section 8, it will pass and every single council member who stood as gate keepers will not ever get elected to anything, you can be a hero and seen as doing something good for once…at this point, people should be running on qualifications and not because you are the last choice….

    1. Hello Eli !!Would you run for Chief @?! Council Members? You are very intelligent. And seem to have all the answers..

      1. no thank you…there are many more qualified people than I who should be allowed to run for office both as chief and council members who are restricted by the current writing of the constitution, at this point we have council members who are willing to CONFIRM none Indians and none Creeks to authority boards but limit our own tribal members to served…as they say at NASA, Houston we have a problem and its so large it can be seen from space… ….I was just reading in the MCN paper why a NONE Indian and NONE Creek was hired as the CFO over our finances because she as a none Indian will have a different perspective (in other words no dog in the fight) and can be neutral on Creek issues…quite frankly that was insulting to me…its the same mentality that the US government had with so called Indian agents, they will know as none Indians whats in our best interest…really? Once again, did anyone read in the MCN newspaper this job description posted anywhere so that our own people who are qualified can make application…very unfortunate to continue election after election with the same ole crap…is it really that hard to reach out to all Creeks and get to know us all…elected leaders, GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE, 81 thousand Creeks here, we are diverse as you can possibly be for any people and somewhere in this LARGE tribe there are qualified people to do every job we have….
        Back to your point….
        Im the first to admit my limitations…mvto for the confidence….

    2. The citizens of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation reserve to themselves the power to propose laws, and to enact or reject the same at the polls independent of the National Council, and also reserve power at their own option to approve or reject at the polls any act of the National Council. The First Power reserved by the citizens of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation is the initiative, and eight (8) percent of voters who voted in the last General Election for the office of the Principal Chief shall have the right to propose any legislative measure, and every such initiative Petition shall include the full text of the measure so proposed. Initiative Petitions shall be filed with the Secretary of the Nation, addressed to the Principal Chief, who shall submit the same to the citizen voters at a Special Election unless there is a General Election within 90 days. The National Council shall make suitable provisions for carrying into effect the provisions of this Amendment. The veto power of the Principal Chief shall not extend to measures voted on by the People. Measures referred to the People by initiative shall take effect the provisions of this Amendment. The veto power of the Principal Chief shall not extend to measures voted on by the People. Measures referred to the People by initiative shall take effect and be in force when approved by a majority of the votes cast and not otherwise.
      This is article VI section 8 of our Constitution. You can read the entire document on our website under Supreme Court tab. This is a petition I will sign. This legislation should be put to a vote. Does anyone want to work to get it going?

  12. How about raising citizenship requirements to being a 1/4 or more blood quantum? That would solve the problem too, then we would know our elected officials and workers were Creek for sure.

    1. Mvskoke is it your position that you should be more than 1/4 to hold office?
      Your statement makes it seem that you don’t know what the law currently states.
      Keeping the current law limits the choices we have when we vote. It doesn’t solve any of the problems. Being more than 1/4 Creek doesn’t make you a better leader and it doesn’t mean you have Creek values.

    2. Careful with voting ideals of citizenship now, its more them than you and what if they wanted vote you out by reversing your standards of blood quantum, they have the vote, its now 83 percent of the tribe…

    3. Heidi Mvskoke!!I love your sweet name!!But get for real !!You are living in a nation that is broken !! You have a council that does not obey the Mvskoke Laws !!They love nepotism .they let any one vote in our elections all other sovereign nations can set on the council they do not care about you or me the Elder of Mvskoke Nation!!We need a Attorney General to write a bill to fire the council!!

      1. Get rid of the Council, and Thief Tiger’s family, supporters, and his spies! We pay them salaries to do nothing and he pays them, what a
        scheming snake!

    4. Why do we judge based off of blood lines? You are treating your own tribal members as if they are the same as a registered dog. At the end of the day, we all had ancestors who suffered the same tragedies. Are we really that different if our skin is a little lighter than yours?

      1. Hello I!!You know for me I don’t care about blood !!I care about honor and trust toward the name “Mvskoke People”for the past 12years we have been betrayed by the chiefs and council .We citizens have no attorneys to file against the corrupt council members who got us in this mess !!We have many judges but even they are not for the citizens of this great nation that I love !!LOL!!

  13. I feel it should be abolished. You’re allowed all right but to hold office no matter blood quantum. I feel if you have a love for your nation. Want to do good of the people. Want better for our people what does it matter if you are under 1/4. If your family quantum shouldn’t matter.

  14. I would vote yes. For those of you who would vote no I would like to know why and how you feel this law helps our tribe.

  15. Absolutely , must happen or Creek Nation will disappear ,not enough full citizens with credentials, education or experience, just look at the results of the Tiger Administration, where uneducated Principal Chief, uneducated 2d Chief employed more uneducated Creeks and the people they put in charge with education took the money and ran after recommending bad business decisions, business deals only benefiting the few.
    The Creek Nation has only been successful when governed by mixed blood citizens and that success was eliminated with the 1/4 blood or more requirement for elective office.

    1. I agree. If we keep employing unskilled workers our tribe will fail. It’s true we do not have that many 1/4 blood citizens left. All I’m saying is quit putting creeks in positions that don’t know what they are doing. The few employees left in the dept of health are sick of this. And while you are at it, allow these employees and opportunity to speak. They are afraid if they say anything they will be fired.

      1. This is not about blood quantum it’s about the councilman making wise decision!! We did not need a food office in Coweta for 50 creeks . We did not a football team from Morris,oklahoma the community should have raised the money!!

        1. Hokte7 you do not know what your talking about. That store was needed in that area. The store is serving over 500 participants.. I guess you forgot to put another zero after your measly 50.

          1. Sorry about the citizen members ! Okmuagee is the capitol and you council members are just bartering votes!!Are you kialegee?

      2. Agreed, i am sorry but sometimes you have to do whats best for your nation. Look at other tribes and how they choose the best qualified person for the job. Whether it maybe non indian or indian, who has the qualifications. You need people that are business experienced not family uneducated. Just because you got a vote or there family. I have seen it at creek nation, those people with no education are hurting the tribe. But trust me, it won’t happen. They don’t want change!

        1. That’s just it… it doesn’t take “them” to want it… those that want the change outnumber those that don’t… all it takes is for the citizens to organize and stand up! 1/4 and below grossly outnumber 1/4 and above!

        2. I sole agree with your comment. Its time for us to wake up. What use to work is not working now. Do you sacrifice the whole nation to save the few that has hurt the tribe. It’s time for a cleanup.

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