Salaries Too Too High


New Topic Please: Salaries Too Too High

Has anyone looked at the new salaries for staff in the september paper? Salaries seem to keep going up. Do these staff members really have the background, education, experience, and skills to qualify for jobs with these high salaries here at creek nation? I think in many cases not. Anyone that is a SG12 step 1 $40,300.00 or more needs to have full disclosure to the citizens of their resume and background. In many cases they are getting paid more than they would in the federal government or private sector according to these new rates. These are higher than last year!!! So first year of new Chief, salaries are higher than last year with previous Chief. What’s going on down there???? How can we be paying people so much more money, for less qualified and less educated, and with a debt of $68 million plus???? There are a lot of SG12, SG13 SG14 SG15, etc. who are these people?

59 thoughts on “Salaries Too Too High”

  1. On the salaries at MCN: The biggest issue I had while working there was the inconsistency across divisions and departments. Likely, most of the jobs are fairly consistent for the position, but there is still inconsistency across divisions and departments and that is usually the fault of the department manager. There is a lot of favoritism and many positions and salaries are based on your name or who you know.

    I noticed my name was still on the list but I left for a new job. I was an SG 12 but step 1-2. That means whoever filled my position came in at the salary I had when I left after 13 years of employment. I found that the leaders at MCN would rather listen to man with a GED than a woman with a M.S., in many cases.

    When I started at MCN, I had a B.S. When I earned my M.S. when I left for a higher position, higher pay and the real opportunity to actually earn raises.

    The individual who was appointed, (yes, he was appointed and the job not advertised) to be director of environmental services has a high school diploma and some tech school training (I think he has some tech school training but he told me he had a degree….he does not have the B.S. required for the position). Do not misinterpret me. I believe he does a good job, but he can’t write a cohesive paragraph. He gets his wife to help him with writing and budgeting and figuring out the particulars. MCN law state that position must have a minimum of a B.S. Not a B.A, but at a minimum, a B.S. He does not have a college degree. That’s okay. He gets by on his personality and prayers but he did not earn the job via education and as is required by MCN law and codes for that position.

    Those of us who have earned our way through work and education move on to some place else, especially if you are female. MCN leans heavily toward the patriarchal. And of course, family name and connections.

    The point is, the salaries are appropriate for most of the positions but there is inconsistency across departments and divisions. There is still a ‘good ole boy’ system in place for hiring, promotions and raises.

    I miss being around my tribe and miss working for my tribe but I sure do enjoy my new higher income. I enjoy the respect I receive and the appreciation for my experience and knowledge.

    Lastly, since I do care about my tribe and have more than enough of the blood quantum required to run for council I believe I may do that in the future.

    1. Really sad tell…I just wish people were not so afraid of speaking up that they cannot use their names…and one other thing, more than 80 percent are less than a .25 and are the majority of voters, it would soon be a thing of the past for those antiquated prohibitions…when you do run, then so because you are qualified to handle the job, not because you are the last choice with blood quantum…

      1. Sure there are a lot of qualified people with skills,education,innovative ideas,and loyalty to our tribe……but they are overlooked and excluded because they are not 1/4. We limit our choices for leadership when the only real qualification is blood quantum. I understand our Constitution and what it takes to change it. I want to tell all those who say we are not going to change it because we don’t want all those thin bloods taking our entitlements.. if we don’t do something about our nation’s situation we won’t have anything left. While I am waiting for this change in will challenge all those who are able to hold office(full citizens) to educate yourself and your children about tribal law, public policy, finance, governance. Build the skills to lead our nation.
        We should not settle. We should be thriving. I’m not saying the law has to change to allow those who are 1/315th or something like that but at least increase it to allow those who are active in our communities and less than 1/4.

        1. Why work for Creek Nation as a young college educated person when management changes every four years or with every new admisration change? There’s no garauntee for job promotion or building a career in management at Creek Nation.

          1. I do agree. I would never take an administration job at the Koweta clinic. In less than 4 years we have had 2 administrators. Neither one was qualified. We have had an acting Diabetes Manager for over 3 years. She was not qualified. Finally changes are being made and I look for the Diabetes Department at each clinic to thrive. It’s really a shame it takes so long for Creek Nation to act when there is a problem. But the old saying that “Creek Nation is slow” always comes into play. Why is that? That is unacceptable?! This needs to be corrected. Is there too much red tape?

        2. I think the 1/4 quantum should come to a vote of the people. I do believe there are many educated citizens that could help the tribe. We are limiting our choice of
          candidates for council and jobs. The nepotism is running rampant in Creek Nation and always has. Its not what you know but who you know. This has to stop.

    2. Sounds like sour grapes have already turned into Whine! U can usually pick out the dumbest one in the room, it’s the person bragging about how smart (educated) they are! I’ve known a lot of folks with a Masters degree that are completely nuts, no social life, no friends. A person’s personality is their greatest asset and what is required to be a good manager. Not whether u decide to go back to college at the age of retirement.

      1. You are exactly right. Just bc you have a Masters doesnt mean HOLANE! Good job that you got an education, but I worked under a manager w a Masters. WORST MANAGER EVER! No managerial skills whatsoever. Should expose the fact that his conferences are many times family vacations. Missed important meetings at the conferences bc was with the inlaws at dinner, IN a company vehicle. How many of you tribal citizens would like a new vehicle to go to conferences in, with free gas, per diem, & your family along???? So all of you spouting about being educated. Yes that is good. But most dont know the half about how bad some of the higher paid ppl in the Nation are & what they get away with. We do need that but we also want people that THINK & LIVE like Creeks.

        1. I don’t think having a Masters has anything to do with honesty. Getting a master degree is not easy. People work hard for it. Yes, I’m sure there are bad managers with a master degree. Having a master degree has nothing to do with being a bad manager. A bad manager is a bad manager period.

    3. I had a whole long diatribe ready to post and then I read the response from “Trapper” and burst out laughing! You hit the nail right on the head. I’m pretty sure “Anonymous” earned that Master’s degree at the expense of the tribe by completing her Master’s work in lieu of the actual work for which she was being so underpaid. Just ask the staff that’s trying to clean up the mess that was left behind. The term “self-aggrandization” comes to mind. Wonder how long it will take your new employer to figure out you spew excuses rather than produce actual results – hopefully not 13 years.

      1. …and be prepared to be put down if you have a degree. A degree at least means you can start something and finish it. unfortunately, that is not appreciated too much in Okmulgee.

        1. We have no leaders because we can’t find anyone without flaws, and the fact we don’t like each other and look for the bad instead of the good in each other. Every time a citizen of the Creek Nation steps up to take a leadership role, the criticism begins and no one wants to put themselves in that impossible position. Whatever prompts this explosion of negative criticism drags us down and makes it impossible for our Nation to grow.
          This kind of problem has been around forever. It’s called the Nazareth Syndrome. When the Greatest Person who ever lived as a child expressed wondrous views beyond his years, His detractors asked, “Who’s this little squirt who thinks he’s someone important, isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother called Mary, and His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Can there anything good come from there?
          Our attitudes keep us stuck in place, and we will remain there until we change ourselves.

    4. The system for hiring is flawed. I have been with Creek Nation over 3 years. The only raise I rec’d was through George Tiger and I’m sure he gave raises because he wanted everyone to vote for him. After the lay-off in September employees were asked to work harder with less employees. We have no hope of getting raises due to the poor management by Tiger. The only people making money is administration but we are expected to pull this tribe out of the hole. It’s sad, people are leaving and finding better jobs. The nepotism video we had to watch is a joke. How do you think Becky Whitlow got her job? She is related to Rhonda Beaver’s husband. She cannot handle Koweta clinic and what do they do they give her Sapulpa to manage too. She is not qualified for either clinic. They put unqualified people in positions but don’t get them training. When they fail well its no big deal we just put another unqualified person in. Get these people some training. Remember who the little people are that are working hard. I think Floyd needs to look long and hard at the people in Administration! Are they qualified??????

  2. Special appropriations exceed 60,000,00 plus for September. Wow. Oh question for who is in charge of the travel plaza. Has it been making money or costing the nation ? Good luck in the future Love’s has opened and business is good.

    1. So what are the special appropriations for? This is just mid Sept.

      Can anyone give an accurate date the health employees are going to be laid off?

  3. Beginning to wonder what is the purpose of the Muscogee government. There are good caring employees as well as employees that could care less. The Pirincipal Chief should be aware of what is happening in the nation but it appears things are already being covered up as thou they never happened. I’d be careful with who I trusted. The council should consider holding the board members they approve accountable for what they are placed into the boards for. One fire LLC. Economic development, nothing new or were working on it. MNBE what a joke and a disaster, but their salaries are really big for what? Gaming board allows huge salaries for certain managers and basically rubber stamps what ever the CEO and managers want. And the compliance office more huge salaries . Health speaks for it’s self and really has a long ways to go. How many positions have been filled with retired citizens or ones that are retirement age. The collage students or young adults need not apply. Citizens as it was mentioned in another post better start caring for one another and not rely on your struggling Nation.

    1. The Authority Boards created by the National Council under the MCN constitution Article VI Section 7.
      The National Council shall have the power (subject to any restrictions contained in the Constitution and laws of the United States of America) to legislate on matters subject to limitations imposed by this Constitution as follows:
      (a) To promote the public health and safety, education and welfare that may contribute to social, physical well-being and economic advancement of citizens of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.
      (i) To create authorities with attendant powers to achieve objectives allowed within the scope of this Constitution.
      The NC does have the authority to create authority boards within the limitations of the constitution….unfortunately since 2012, it would appear that the NC has over reached its authority and stepped outside the construct of the constitution by taking the board nomination power away from the Executive Branch and creating boards such as One Fire with the NC selecting nominees and confirming them as well…they have amended the Gaming Authority Board to do the same…this is a clear violation of the balance of power in the constitution. Folks can you imagine the US senate selecting and approving members of the US Supreme Court…can you imagine the Senate selecting and confirming their own picks to the President’s cabinet or to federal courts…
      Our constitution had already laid the foundation of how boards were to be patterned when the citizens voted to have the principal chief nominate all members to the citizenship board and the election of board and the NC confirms the nominees…
      What we have now is a chief picks two, and the council confirms them, and the NC pick two or three and confirms their own picks….I really don’t understand why the AG or the Chief has not challenge this in the Supreme Court…which by the way, the constitution laid the bases of the Creek Supreme Court nomination process out the same way, the principal chief nominates and the council confirms…
      Adding to the authority board MESS, is the fact that these BOARDS are never advertised as they should be….we know a year in advance when boards seats become vacant…yet NO ONE, not the Executive Branch or the National Council place notifications in the MCN newspaper or the website some 60 or 90 days in advance so that citizens (all 81 thousand) would have notice and if they believe they qualify can send in their credentials or resumes to be considered for the board nomination….the nepotism is beyond shocking with these picks…it’s actually dang right shameful.
      We can do better…and Im sick and tired of people running for office with all kinds of promises to fix these issues and when elected become the very elected officials they wanted to replace.
      These issues are a none brainer to those of us who really actually believe in fairness and transparency…..Eli Grayson
      Anyone interesting in helping with initiative petitions as found in Article VI Section 8 to fix this mess ourselves can reach me at or fell free to call me directly at 760 534 1632….

      1. Eli There is no housing board for Creek Nation!!!li, At our senior meeting last week, I asked the two council members if Housing had a board and they said no…no housing board. We have many laws but no one answers to the laws of the nation !!
        They also said they could not get into employee hiring!!

    2. I know that if you’re not a senior citizen or a retired one, or already drawing a ret check then don’t bother to apply for a job. You either don’t get an interview or they waste your time interviewing you but don’t hire you. I know we have plenty of creek citizens with qualifications and a family to feed that could be hired but no we need people that should be enjoying life at home instead of just drawing a big paycheck to add to their bank account. Guess chief and second needs someone their age to run things. We still have nepotism, like the new child welfare manager that immediatly supervises her own sister and supervises the wife of the man shes having an affair with. A lot of people are talking about them, has she moved him from the sapulpa office yet? Wonder what her dad the preacher has to say about that. They always said preachers kids re the worst.

  4. Hopefully whitlow will straighten bucktrot out soon, he running his mouth to the staff and the elderly, i hope doesn’t speak to any of my elderly relatives. Council members did you lie to the people, you have approved evrryone hicks want you to. Have they heard that hicks likes his bottle on the job bet he has one hidden somewhere in his office. I bet ole george would have called him on that. He will be back.

    1. I heard Bucktrot told a 74 year old elder he needed to tarp his own roof, his house, his responsibility. They said they tried but it keeps blowing off, he told them to get some gorilla tape, WTH!! There were 3 other witnesses besides the homeowners and counselor. We need some gorilla tape for his big bullying mouth.

        1. Very good. Are you referencing citizens’ dependency on government? I thought about your question and couldn’t come to a firm conclusion about what I would do to stop the issue of dependency. So ask you as well as anyone.
          If you were on the Council, how would you address this issue. What would be the first thing you would do?

        2. What are we here for then? Are we not here for our people? That’s exactly what Housing is there for, for creek citizens who need help. Do we have citizens who abuse the tribe, you bet but we also have citizens who are in desperate need for help, who are we to judge. Why would you not help a 74 year old creek citizen tarp his roof is the better question. I’m sure you would of liked him talking to your parents that way. He’s running Construction Services now, why didn’t he go tarp it?? All he did was swindle himself a good paying job because he’s buddies with Hicks, he’s lazy, doesn’t no anything (try having a conversation with him), he just stomps around thinking he’s somebody because he runs to Hicks on everything.

          1. When your out in the real world and roof needs repaired…you don’t go back to the lender and say…can you fix this for me? No. It’s your house your paying for it…maintain it! I’m sorry if the person is 74 years old and that is truly unfortunate, but surely there is a family member, close friend someone to tarp it. Senior services May provide a helping hand. When ppl get a home through creek nation it is to give them affordable housing, get them on their feet . It’s not a free ticket to endless updates,repairs and maintenance.

            1. Little girl, you should learn to respect your elders. That is if you are Creek, but you talk more like a white girl. I am 61 years old, I have parents, uncles and aunties in their 80s. We were raised and taught that we help our elders and our children. We don’t just turn our backs on our elders. If that is what our tribal leaders think is okay then we need new leaders. It sounds like this man asked for help with a tarp for his roof, we need to help him fix his roof. Roof problems happen, it is not his fault. He may not have family to help. Do you know how proud our seniors are and how hard it is for many of them to ask for help. And when they do, they get turned down like this. We need new leader, we need staff that cares for our people.

            2. Unfortunately NAHASDA homes are not the same as regular home loans….for example, payments are called rent payment which are adjusted yearly based on the income of the renter…it’s apples and oranges…it has more similarities to rent to own, than the normal home mortgages…

            3. Who wrote this, bucktrot? Housing services are there to help the people otherwise why are they there. All the programs are are for the people. What is the money appropriated for? You must have been turned down for something or you think bucktrot is being fair. I just bet he would not like someone saying this to his elderly relatives.

            4. Yes! Yes! Yes! If we stopped with these services that would mean more funds to assist more people with affordable housing or better upkeep with the apartments the tribe has. Keep the drugs and alcohol out…away from families with kids. This isn’t the administration from before when you ran to George and he ordered Brad Fox to move them up the list. Or at least I hope it’s not!

      1. Omg. I bet he couldn’t even get up there to do it himself. He should be ashamed of himself talking to an elder that way. He should be fired for that, has the chief heard about this? Someone should tell him and the council. If the chief doesn’t step up to the plate and do something about it, shame on him. He is suppose to be over the tribe, what if bucktrot said this to chiefs mom.


  5. Salaries at the Nation are based on government positions, health positions, and gaming positions. The biggest portion oh the monies are concived from gaming dollars. There are some individuals in gaming that receive very high salaries. I feel it would be safe to say 6 figures along with benifits and bonuses. Most managers do fairly good themselves one for sure. The gaming board is responsible for top gaming salaries including the CEOs which has a huge salary. Next the health departments top officials salaries, benefits, and hugh bonus The administrators, doctors, and Specilty services at the hospital that is losing money daily and all of the other health services clinics . Then the administrative positions of many kin folk and friends that are hired with decent salaries with the great benefits tha are part of you salary and don’t forget the many holidays off which are more than any job around. It’s costing much more than it should to run a broke nation down with nothing to show for. Why not reavaluate salaries and see who is making all the money.

  6. The tribe has a whole lot of problems beyond salaries. Removing creek citizens criteria for secretary of the nation and now controller, firing people that’s work 10+ years but keeping month old hire, the joke of an ag teacher with no qualifications or experience is running recreation and tourism, housing has been run by a plumber, the travel plazas are being ran into the dirt. The dirt known as “loves”. The only thing that is doing good is the casinos. We went from spending all of our money to sitting and not making decisions.

      1. Evidently you are not creek but you are a wannabee. You know there is good and bad in all tribes. Go to loves and stay the heck away from the tribe. God forbid you have to ask for assistance.

        1. God forbid they need assistance is right! All the over paid not answer the phone and when they do, they are not familiar with the programs they work for. This is fact. Native News just done a wonderful story on it.

    1. Your right the tribe does have a whole lot of problems. Disgruntled past, George Tiger supporting, bad employees. You talk about the past employees with higher education, I would be willing to bet this administrations accredited degrees against the last administrations “honorary” degrees. It is time this tribes “services” are a hand up and not a hand out. The only people constantly bit@$ing are the ones who aren’t handed everything .

      At least get a little creative in your greed. You could be like Dode Barnett. A housekeeper who has learned the art of corruption and kickback. I just read the agenda and her fake ass myon program promoting literacy is back asking for 1.8 million to this company. What is your percentage?. How much have you already received in kickbacks ??? Any accountability on this money, any test scores improved??? Let’s see the proof Dode. At least put together some bogus power point or something!!

      You can damn sure bet George Tiger is going to run against her and probably win. At least he wears and drives his kickbacks for everyone to see.

      1. You gotta be kidding! 1.8M!!??? While budgets for programs and services to the citizens are getting slashed to pieces and directors had to cut 10% out of their budgets. Talk is that next week 130 more employees are slated to be let go including some full bloods who have worked for the nation for over 20 years. The weak Chief has invited the BIA back to the complex and is turning programs back over to them to run weakening our tribal sovereignty. People need to wake up and take action soon or there isn’t going to be much of a Nation left for us or our children. Vote and get the greedy do nothing Council members out and when is that petition to impeach or recall that stvhetke hearted Floyd going to be filed?

      2. That 1.8 million urks me because there’s contract health sending letters to cancer patients denying them help stating lack of funds. Also the council is giving money to schools, i know our children are educated by these schools but what about our real creek citizens who are in need of emergency health treatment.

  7. It is completely untrue that salaries are above the private or government sector averages. A wage study should be commissioned to bring salaries up to par to be competitive with other members of the 5 Tribes and private industry in similar or comparable areas.

    Sounds like jealousy or being passed over for a job. Or pretty much just a bunch of b****ing just like every other ignorant post on this website.

    1. Sounds like Skeptical got a nerve hit and panties in a wad with talk about the too high salaries. Probably one of the fat cats getting paid more than what their worth or more than what little work they probably do. You know the kind that sits around all day talking and gossiping, checking their cell phones, browsing the internet, then rolls their eyes when someone comes in and they have to work….and goes for the long lunch or just disappears during the afternoon. Not jealous and not passed over, just tired of working here and watching all the ass kissing happening and jobs created and salaries going up and up for “special” people.

      1. Lol, Ok! I actually earn my money but since you get to assume whatever you want to on the internet go right ahead!

        It isn’t hard to research average salaries in the region for particular positions, career paths, and jobs. is one website that will give great comparisons for different jobs. That would be a good place to start to actually get a gauge of what salaries or wages should be before really starting a critical review of who is qualified for what rate of pay.

        Instead of griping about who is getting paid “too much” maybe the question should be “who is not getting paid enough.” Every full time job should pay a living wage in MCN, Oklahoma or the US in general. The wrong question is being asked here.

      2. I hear woody anderson makes $200,000 a year. Its time that this kind of salary is knocked down. He left the tribe before but couldn’tmake it in the real world. I can think of more people that is worth this than him.

        1. isn’t ole woody anderson that you say makes $200,000 same guy that oversees our travel plazas that are in shambles and look like crap? The money is going in his pocket and not in our plazas or other businesses. We need to clean house starting from the top down.

          1. That’s the same one. He was driving a tribal vehical home all the time, have u seen what he drives now, bet he paid cash for it. He will never leave until they make him. He has lived off the tribe long enough.

    1. No it is being kept quiet. He walks around like a dang rooster, why is the chief allowing this mess and the council. Also why is bucktrot still around, must be lewis hicks protege. Lol

      1. Bucktrot is still running around Housing thinking he’s the boss, I guess someone forgot to tell him he’s no longer in charge or maybe he is and they didn’t tell Whitlow.

    2. Good question. It’s a shame how the the citizens are done, who makes the decision on who gets help or not, probably someone that has no health training at all. What do the contract workers do anyway? The only one that seems to help is trish. Good luck with it if you have cancer.

  8. Has anyone heard if it’s true about the Second Chief drinking on the job and backing into a worker from his office? If it is true the Chief surely knows about this and it surely is not the first time for drinking. Someone needs to look into this. Sooner better than later. Would this be grounds to get rid of him?

  9. Seems to not have a clue about rules and regs. Shows his ignorance by being rude to people. Like someone said he took the office from someone else and directly supervises some lady that was a bucktrot and lets her throw her weight around. What does two dumbs make, dumb and dumber?

  10. People like Alvin Bucktrot who has an assiciate plumbing degree but couldn’t ever get his plumbing license yet gave himself a high paying job T housing after he was kicked out as the director

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *