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• 2/8/2012 11:30 AM wakvs12 wrote:
  This whole thing is getting a little old, and can we move forward with some construtive ideas for the MCN, those things that will better the tribe and its people. Because this whole critism bit is bringing me down to a level i prefer not to be. and God Bless you.
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  1. 2/8/2012 6:16 PM Johnny Humble wrote:
     Welcome to the real world. I noticed that you are a new contributer to VOC under the pseudonym of wakvs12. You appear to be the designated apologist for the Tiger administration. Constructive ideas do not include dismantling the Constitution nor allowing a new administration to run roughshod over same.
     If you have a constructive idea other than let the Kialegee and George have their way lets by all means hear them.
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     1. 2/10/2012 11:27 AM wakvs12 wrote:
        Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. In my defense, I am not an apologist for the Tiger Administration. I am an optimist. I prefer to hope that Chief Tiger will make the needs of all the MCN people a priority, not political influence.
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        1. 2/10/2012 1:25 PM anoymous wrote:
           Pigs will sprout wings and fly before that happens.
           Reply to this
        2. 2/10/2012 1:39 PM Johnny Humble wrote:
           Keep hoping and keep defending. Oh and keep sharing your good ideas and optimism
           Reply to this
        3. 2/10/2012 2:46 PM Nakose wrote:
           We all have our hopes and dreams but ole george has a track record based on his hopes and dreams and sadly they don't line up with ours.
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• 2/8/2012 1:40 PM nonemployee wrote:
  that would be nice...if there was only anything good to post about the direction tiger is taking the tribe! sad to say i haven't seen or heard any good news coming from this new administration to date.
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• 2/8/2012 9:11 PM Slim Checote wrote:
  I don't really know what to think about it. I'm conflicted. I'll admit, the Kialegee's didn't go about it very good and pretty much started out by shooting themselves in the foot by doing it the way they did on the premise that "they didn't need anybody's permission to build" the casino where they did, without filing for a gaming license and then blowing off pretty much everyone who questioned their intentions,.. was definitely a bad public relations move on their part. But I don't like the way the local TV stations and newspapers have jumped on it and aggravated the problem with sensational coverage everytime all the white people in B.A. decide to have a little demonstration. They're definitely "egging" these people on and what politician could pass up a chance to get the kind of coverage this story is getting? very few... Its all a recipe for disaster for the Creek tribe and I, for one, am interested to see how our new Chief handles it.
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  1. 2/8/2012 9:54 PM Curious One too wrote:
     Definitely, a lot of the pub is purely about PR. My concern is the legalities of the entire situation. But I do agree that this is a disaster for our Creek Nation. To me, that is what the new Chief should be handling. I am simple-minded enough to believe what I read in our Constitution, and it reads fairly plain of what can be done. Then there is also the stipulation that no other casino can be built within 50 miles of the River Spirit, but I don't know if that's binding on anyone other then to satisfy the financiers' security.
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     1. 2/9/2012 7:51 AM Anno wrote:
        HA you people are a riot "we don't need nobodys approval to do nutin" "those rules dont mean us". This sounds just like the little issue with the state on the tobacco compact. o yeah you dont have one of those either. I can't wait till all the whinning starts when you have to pony up the $50 million dollars to settle the tobacco compact what fools
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        1. 2/9/2012 9:28 AM Anonymous wrote:
           About the tobacco compact, we have only to look at George and his NC cronies when they turned down a good compact negotiated by Chief Ellis. The NC is what got us into this situation. Now, why does George say we will have a compact? What they refused to do back then has put the tribe into a whole lot of jeopardy.
           
           Refusal to sign the compact was totally based on their inability to accept Ellis as the Chief, and a signed compact would have given Ellis credit for it which they couldn't abide.  Childish, immature and vindictive, but that's what it was.  We were there.
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           1. 2/9/2012 12:41 PM nonemployee wrote:
              the state won't sign another compact.....why would they? tiger and his bunch just screwed the tribe out of those monies. and soon the tribe will be having to pay fines over the community business...just watch!
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              1. 2/12/2012 5:13 PM Anoymous wrote:
                 Eventuly the tribe will have to have a signed compact to sell tobacco or be put out of the tobacco business. I've heard the fines to do so are upwards of $50 million dollars already the longer we wait the more it will cost. This matter alone will bankrupt the nation. I'm sure it will be some ones else's fault.
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                 1. 2/13/2012 11:52 AM he wrote:
                    I'd think that a good amount of the back taxes is due from the smoke shop owners. Am I wrong?
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        2. 2/18/2012 10:54 PM Me Too wrote:
           Just a thought. The smoke shops have to be defended. This whole business has to do with buying smokes on a Nation-to-Nation basis, purchasing from other tribal factories. And WHICH BRANDS THE SMOKE SHOPS COULD BUY, WAS BASED ENTIRELY on the permission of the MCN TAX COMMISSIONER, telling the MCN Wholesale what they could buy, stock and sell to the tribal smoke shops. Of course, we now have that Tax Commissioner and a couple of the Tobacco Wholesale employees under indictment, unless maybe the new (old) attorney general Roger Wiley can get the court cases thrown out. Both the Tax Commission and the Business Enterprise leaders were very much protected by Tiger, Barnett, Alexander and that bunch. 
           
           Remember, George Tiger stated in his inaugural speech that he would get all pending lawsuits thrown out. Good luck to the indicted ones.
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• 2/10/2012 10:50 AM Dr. wrote:
  Yesterday the Oklahoma Attorney General filed a federal law suit against persons and organizations developing the casino in Broken arrow. Now facts will eventually come out on the Creek leaders who at first supported this attack on the Creek Nation.
  Ms: Giles and her sister have been double-crossed, just as the entire Creek Nation has been treated by the politicos, who have taken favors under the guise of a political contribution and then openly voted down a tobacco compact with Oklahoma 5 years ago, now the same people have stated in court and written letters of support for a casino in Broken Arrow to compete with the Creek Nations River Spirit Casino.
  They now change their support for the Broken Arrow casino which should have the proponents hopping mad along with Kialiagee members all who voted in the last election and now are at the mercy of the Oklahoma AG and in the case of tobacco the US Attorney.
  Moral: Cheap politicians will say and promise anything to get elected.
  Those same politicians are now scrambling to protect their own future at the expense of Creek citizens who believed their promises.
  It is easy to state that 400 Kialiagee members decided the last election and they will be lucky to come out of this no win situation with a sofkey pot.
  
  All should watch the Tulsa World for they have several bulldogs working this casino and tobacco matter that will not give up!
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• 2/11/2012 12:46 PM RPP wrote:
  This KTT bunch and their masters could not be any more crooked as this Tulsa World article reveals.
  
  Link:
  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=685&articleid=20120211_11_A1_CUTLIN288921
  
  
  At the same time the Kialegee Tribal Town of Wetumka was pursuing a gaming opportunity in Broken Arrow, the landless tribe's two top leaders also discussed a development project that would create a homeland for the tribe on St. Simons Island off the Georgia coast, records show.
  
  
  St. Andrews Plantation, developers of the Georgia project, wired the tribe $15,000 as part of a development and construction agreement in December 2010 that would require the tribe to work exclusively with it on any gaming ventures in Georgia, records show.
  
  The agreement included construction of a hotel and resort, cultural museum and educational enterprise, a convention center and casino.
  
  Joe McDonough, managing partner of St. Andrews Plantation, said the project, which also included the re-creation of a Creek village attraction, was discussed during numerous meetings with Georgia lawmakers and the U.S. Department of the Interior in Washington.
  
  Fred Scheffler, a consultant for St. Andrews Plantation, questioned why the Kialegee were claiming to be a "landless tribe" in discussions involving the Georgia development while asserting joint jurisdiction with the Muscogee (Creek) Nation on the proposed casino site in Broken Arrow.
  
  Dennis Whittlesey, attorney for the tribe and developers of the Red Clay Casino under way in Broken Arrow, says the Georgia project was never presented to the tribe nor approved by its business committee.
  
  But the Bureau of Indian Affairs notified Kialegee Tribal Town King Tiger Hobia on Feb. 28, 2011, that it had received a trust application for a destination resort and Kialegee homeland in Georgia.
  
  Whittlesey said Hobia and First Warrior Thomas Givens thought the trust application was an application for economic development grants.
  
  "People sign things they don't read, OK? They do. I'll leave it at that," Whittlesey said.
  
  But McDonough said Givens read every word of the document and was with him when they hand-delivered it to the BIA.
  
  "I can't excuse the bad behavior to ignorance," he said. "I think they ought to at least step up to the plate and say, 'Hey, we did wrong. We admit it. Here's your money back.' "
  
  McDonough said he thought he had built a good relationship with the tribe on fishing trips on the Georgia coast and college football games in Oklahoma.
  
  Whittlesey says the tribe was pursuing only the Broken Arrow project and had been long before the tribe's attorney, Vicki Sousa, wrote to St. Andrews Plantation in December 2010 asking that it direct all future correspondence with the tribe to her office.
  
  Sousa sought to quash the Georgia trust application by writing to the BIA in April 2011 and saying it had not been authorized by the tribe's business committee.
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  1. 2/12/2012 9:11 AM Dr wrote:
     The Kialegees evidently have a habit of taking money from others after signing documents pledging only to do business with the money people--sounds very familiar to what has happened to Ms: Giles and Capps when dealing with the current leaders of the Creek Nation--there is the common thread between the Kialegee and Creek leaders and it is as follows:
     
     Neither have the necessary background, experience or education to engage in business arrangements as complicated as described in the Tulsa World, BUT all like sufficient ethics or morals and of course do not have the assets to pay any type of judgment that might be rendered against them personally for any of their contract violations.
     
     The one critical item they all overlooked was taking money, which was just too tempting to ever pass up, then these individual leaders signed a contract or letter or voted for or against something for which they took money.
     
     There is another common link:
     
     ALL have a number of lawyers, some in the background others on the front page advising the Indian as to the legality of their actions. After all is said and done the Indian will again lose more personal rights, the federal government will take away more tribal rights and the lawyers will go to the bank.
     
     The tribe again suffers for the greed of leaders in same manner as the loss of Georgia and Alabama resulting in the "Trail of Tears".
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• 2/12/2012 12:45 AM early bird wrote:
  I think the Kialegee tribal members are the ones getting the shaft by these non-Indian consultant firms, lawyers and their Tribal Town leaders. Toknvwv yvtskv can make people make a lot of mistakes. I hope this gets straighten out soon before it creates further division.
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  1. 2/12/2012 5:08 PM Anoymous wrote:
     Why of course it was someone else's fault, they (the KKT) were just stupid greedy and crooked, its always someone else's fault, poor indians. Its just like I've heard people whining about how the casino took all their money. I really feel sorry for them.
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• 2/16/2012 1:35 PM Jolie wrote:
  Big News Today!!
  
  US government disagrees with tribal casino developers in BA
  
  The Bureau of Indian Affairs seeks further documentation
  published Feb. 16, 2012
  
  http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/us-government-disagrees-tribal-casino-developers-b/nH6tt/
  
  and BIA official: Lease approval needed for Broken Arrow casino
  
  published Feb. 16, 2012
  
  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=685&articleid=20120216_685_0_hrimgs616497
  
  After Larry Echo Hawk's non-answer to the Oklahoma legislators on Feb. 9, I didn't expect any action by his agency any time soon. Someone must have put pressure on his agency, for this action to have taken place less than a week later.
  
  I see on the revised agenda for tonight's MCN NC meeting of the Business, Finance, and Justice Committee, the committee members, headed up by Cherrah Ridge, will be discussing the Kialegee Tribal Town Casino:
  
  QUOTE
  
  TR 12-017 A TRIBAL RESOLUTION OF THE MUSCOGEE (CREEK) NATION CLARIFYING THE ISSUE OF AN ATTEMPTED DEVELOPMENT BY THE KIALEGEE TRIBAL TOWN OF A TRIBAL CASINO ON A ...RESTRICTED MUSCOGEE (CREEK) ALLOTMENT LOCATED IN BROKEN ARROW, OKLAHOMA; AND THE TRIBAL POSITION – Sponsor: Sam Alexander
  
  END QUOTE
  
  Any word as to what actions may be taken by the NC?
  
  I would expect, particularly with BIA coming out with its declarations this week, that the NC will not give its blessing to the KTT casino.
  
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• 2/18/2012 4:06 PM Banana_Phone wrote:
  I would expect that people who have been on the council for as many years as they have (Ridge, Alexander, Hufft, Ade, Wind, Beaver, Yahola) would know that they can only enact laws that deal with the nation. They cannot make an official statement on behalf of the nation because those powers are vested with the Executive Branch and specifically the Principal Chief.
  Let it be that Ms. Quiet, I mean Ms. Ridge should know this by now. But it seems that the possibility of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation being potentially involved in it will set a motion for the state and federal government to begin looking into the Creek Nation more specifically.
  I'm now setting my watch and that within a month's time, there will not be a casino.
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  1. 2/18/2012 8:17 PM DBD wrote:
     Would that be Principal Chief "Look the Other Way"?
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  2. 2/18/2012 11:23 PM Anon1 wrote:
     Don't forget for even a minute all the intertwined connections amongst interested persons.
     
     Cherrah Ridge Quiett Ridge is the soon to be bride of Justin Giles, son of Marcella Giles. Hope she has the educated sense to recuse herself in any Kialegee casino discussions. She cannot be impartial or fair to the MCN.
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• 2/18/2012 5:18 PM Jolie wrote:
  We now have proof that the Broken Arrow City Manager and Mayor and City Attorney have been lying to the residents of Broken Arrow. They knew the specifics of the proposed casino and were negotiating fees for services by Sep. 9, likely earlier. Here is a link to the preview article published today in the Tulsa World. The full Sep. 9 email will be published with the detailed article in Sunday's edition, I think.
  
  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20120218_298_0_BROKEN155281
  
  I expect there will be a lot of changes in BA City government in the very near future.
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• 3/1/2012 6:04 AM RPP wrote:
  This just in, State of Oklahoma asks federal court to order KTT to identify the persons who make up its governing body. It does so because KTT refuses to do so otherwise. Why would KTT do that? It's been said that KTT is run by a single family? Could there be embarrassing overlap between KTT government and the M(C)N government? Anyone know?
  
  Link:
  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=685&articleid=20120301_14_A1_Thesta97433
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• 3/1/2012 2:27 PM Jolie wrote:
  RPP,
  
  Apparently, the rumor is that perhaps the members of the KTT's business committee may not all be actual members of the KTT. Some may be from other neigboring Creek tribal towns, which would be in violation of the KTT Constitution.
  
  Read BACANG's press release of March 1, 2012
  
  https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150838953683065&set=o.267030990018709&type=3&theater
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• 3/1/2012 4:59 PM Wotko70 wrote:
  Maybe now they will feed their own famillies and do what a sovereign nation should do, take care of their own members!!  And quit asking Creek citizens for help!!  They are double dipping and will loose their Sovereinty soon,our council is full of their citizens..
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  1. 3/2/2012 5:48 AM RPP wrote:
     A dollar slot can generally be relied on to net $100,000 a year. If KTT puts a couple dozen dollar slots in their double-wide "casino" on Ms. Giles land, even after they pay her rent, that's a sizeable pile of cash to be divided among 400 or so KTT folks. Around $50,000 a year for each KTT'er. That's if, and its a big if, the money does in fact trickle down equally to all KTT'ers. And those folks will still be positioned to hit up M(C)N for free stuff and benefits. This, despite the fact the M(C)N Constitution says you can't be a citizen of any other tribe if you are a M(C)N citizen.
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     1. 3/3/2012 7:51 AM Red wrote:
        Two dozen will actually be 240 in the beginning, which then means $500.000.00 per member not to mention $18,000,000.00 (yes 18 million to Giles and Capps) read the lease on creektruth.
        As soon as the Broken Arrow casino is approved many others will spring up in and around Tulsa County. When that happens we will see Millionaire Creek National Council members along with some select executives.
        All for the good of 75,000 plus Creeks?
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• 3/10/2012 7:01 AM RPP wrote:
  This just in, Sammy getting sideways with Georgie. It was bound to happen. "One pasture + two bulls = big fight."
  
  This also means Sammy has called Georgie's hand. Georgie will now either have to ante-up or fold on his "official position" on the KTT scheme to backstab M(C)N.
  
  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=685&articleid=20120310_11_A1_CUTLIN553666
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