PRIMARY RESULTS & CAMPAIGN STRATEGIES?
NEW TOPIC AS REQUESTED 9-18-2011 BY RPP (Refers to General Election in November)
Mods: new topic please, re PRIMARY RESULTS
Remain calm and carry on. It's going to be fine.
Check the Nation's website for the primary winners. Most of the "go-alongers" have been swept out of the Council.
As to the Chief's race...it'll be a two horse race between Flud and Tiger. And I like Mike's chances, especially if the former Nichols and Alfred Berryhill voters swing Flud's way.
Also think its entirely possible Mike will take off the gloves now and call Tiger publicly to account for all his shady dealings (the tobacco fiasco, Broken Arrow casino, etc.) and his background.
Mods: new topic please, re PRIMARY RESULTS
Remain calm and carry on. It's going to be fine.
Check the Nation's website for the primary winners. Most of the "go-alongers" have been swept out of the Council.
As to the Chief's race...it'll be a two horse race between Flud and Tiger. And I like Mike's chances, especially if the former Nichols and Alfred Berryhill voters swing Flud's way.
Also think its entirely possible Mike will take off the gloves now and call Tiger publicly to account for all his shady dealings (the tobacco fiasco, Broken Arrow casino, etc.) and his background.
Now that all has boiled down to 2 candidates for Chief and 2 candidates for 2d Chief lets really find out about these men.
Anyone with personal knowledge please post it for all to review.
The voters need to know about candidates background, education, work habits, civic involvement and service to Creek Nation.
In other words just who are these people, what have the done in their personal lives, what have they done for the good of the Creek Nation.
The Creek voter should demand specifics and if they are not volunteered then someone please list them here.
The Creek Nation is the biggest business in this part of Oklahoma and we can not afford to place the Nation's future in the hands of no account do nothings that do not have anything to offer but the gift of gab.
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Please, please. In the upcoming campaign and forum debates can we PLEASE organize meaningful and probing questions for the candidates? Sure, the list of candidates was large for the primaries, but now it is one-on-one. Let's have real debates about the real issues, and be specific. The candidates can always be friends after the election, but right now we need a clear winner and loser on the issues! I'm not saying nasty or personal, but we want to know what you will do and why we should vote for you or against your opponent. Take the gloves off!
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Flud will be a mistake if elected in. hes a nice man and well educated but he is not chief material. Show me some work he has done other than the tribal collage?
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Show us something, anything that George Tiger has done for the Muscogee people besides take their money.
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Laughing Well, let's start with your comments, "He is a nice man and WELL educated!" From what I hear he has not just ATTENDED college, but he has actually graduated with a BA and 2 Master degrees. Let's take it a step further. He is an HONEST man and cares about the citizens. Financially he doesn't have to work or embezzle from the Nation. Service to the Nation is his sole motivation. He is articulate and will represent the Nation well. In my opinion he is definitely Chief material ... far more the the other.
I'm looking forward to some debates between the two.
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if he cared about our citizens he would not be heard saying he will support our Police chief who in fact has said himself, he cares less bout our citizens, who had made fun of our grounds and churches, our ways, he himself is a citizen but only an 8-5 citizen. Now if you want to support Flud thats your choice but some of us will make it known this is how Flud cares
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You are putting the police chiefs words into Fluds mouth, just because he supports this man does not mean that he completely agrees with his words or methods, and does not mean he does not care, First of all you need to get off the issue of the dance grounds and church, A Chief must consider what is best for the entire Nation and not just one or two groups of the people within it. You speak of our ways as if you are the only person who understands them and wants to see them preserved, but you forget that the years have weathered and corrupted them from their original status and grace, this being said we must now look at a much larger picture that includes all of us and not just those living in the past. We have to look forward because what is behind us is usually already gone, and probably not what it used to be or wished it was. You thoughts are well intended I am sure, but Naive and un educated at best. Casino's, Alchoholism and drugs are not a part of our ways,but whether we like it or not they are now are part of our life, How we deal with them is what counts now, and I don't see very much religion or God like actions in Mr Tigers Past. Give Change a Chance. God Bless and Think Larger that Yourself.
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This is silly reasoning...sorry. Judge the man by what HE says, not by what someone else said. Should I be mad at my wife because HER brother once kicked a cat?
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It will be interesting to see if Tiger and Barnett are elected to the two top positions within the Creek Nation, especially if and win the headlines in the papers read "Principle Chief and Second Chief of the Muscogee "Creek" Nation Indicted on Federal Charges" then we as a nation can really be proud of our leaders.
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Okay, I'll bite.
As a school administrator, Flud ran public schools for years. With never a hint of scandal. In other words, he had a fine career out in the world and has never been dependent on tribal jobs. And he's never been sued by creditors for being a dead-beat.
Flud has managed his private life and personal finances in fine fashion. He has served the Nation on its Supreme Court. He has served the Nation as its Chief of Staff, and as you pointed out, he brought a dream into reality. Namely, the College of the Muscogee Nation; a degree granting institution operating in a world-class facility.
Now its your turn. What has ol' George ever done, besides take care of ol' George - to the detriment of the Mvskoke People?
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I've worked along side both men and can tell you that Mr. Flud has more honesty and integrity in his little finger than Mr. Tiger. Tiger is quick to throw one under the bus. I cannot even fathom a Nation run by George Tiger and Roger Barnett. These are two of the most deceitful individuals I've ever met in my life. They are all about lining of the pockets, not what is good for the Nation.
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OMG! Show me some works of Flud? There is plenty to show you. Read some of the other comments and his campaign brochures. His accomplishments are all true and can be easily documented.
Now, about G. Tiger. I do know about him too and the negative things being written and stated about him are too true for words. All that you read here on this site can also be documented. He leaves a bad-taste trail behind wherever he lands. Nothing but a smooth talker and we need to quit falling for that rhetoric.
Please do some research on both of the candidates for Chief. Do the same for the 2nd Chief candidates. Roger is George's shadow and mirror image, and can be documented. Hicks is one of the good guys. That too can be checked out.
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My gosh how true. In the NC office they refer to Roger as "mini george". They all stay very worried about Roger when George backs up.
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The real mistake will be to let George Tiger remain on Council, let alone sit as the Principal Chief of the Nation. To be as objective as possible has been my position to date and have listened to all which has been said about so many people. I've heard very little of Tiger's life which amounts to any real experience outside of the Tribal systems. And, those reports have been less than stellar to say the least. What about the documents I have in my possession which indicate George Tiger was once accused of liberating a lot of money from one community, he plead to avoid a long trial only to have the judge rule a statute of limitations running out on the issue at hand. He still took money belonging to the Tribe, admitted it, but was able to avoid the penalty due to a technicality.
This is only one instance people have talked about, and the only one I have evidence of, and were it an isolated incident I'd be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. That just isn't so.
Flud seems to be an honest man who doesn't rely on the Tribe for his personal, or his family's wellbeing. That alone speaks volumes.
It is my opinion he has taken up the gavel to run for office because he truly cares about the Mvskokulke!
He doesn't need the money, or the headache, and IS willing to serve the NATION because it is the right thing to do.
Open your eyes, and look for the TRUTH!
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There is such a thing as the lesser of two Evils, and Mr. Tiger obviously has a much longer list of Evil. Make the change Give Flud a chance at least he has a clean slate to build on at this point. Only Time will tell the truth. and we already know the truth about Tiger and it is not a pretty picture. He should answer for his actions and refuses. This alone is strike three for me.
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Shadow, Do you not want a change for the tribe to be better? If flud gets in the same ole adminstration will be there and what good have they done these past 4 years. George may have done wrong but we know that he will change alot of things that flud won't. flud and his old cronies will sit back and do as they have been (nothing)and I bet A.D. will have a high paying position. You said only time will tell so let's see what George will do. What is the old saying (Don't judge a book by it's cover)? If only we could look inside a persons heart to see how they really feel, just because someone has money doesn't make him the right person. To me this would only make his actions be looking down on the people that do not have and not doing for them. If George was guilty of all these things he has been accused of why did they let statute of limitations run out in the first place. If they are not going to prosecute these people that are thieves from the tribe, leave them the hell alone. The ones that got him off is as guilty as he is. What has happened with the communities that would not comply, Newman Frank was one of them and still has a job working with money are they going to do anything about that, so ole george is not alone.mt
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You state "IF GEORGE WAS GUILTY OF ALL THESE THINGS HE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF": You really need to get beyond the superficial. The truth (facts) are readily available out there about George if anybody is really interested in truth. It isn't just about OIC. You also have to look at 'connections' & the old buddy system. Like George & R. Barnett. You mention Newman Frank, rightly so, Chm of GIC, who also happens to be the anointed preacher of Concharty Ind. Church, which also happens to be Barnett's church. You're so right in that ole George is not alone. Every thing I've read on this website about George and friends are pretty well documented, and many citizens have copies.
You also seem to get hung up on money issues about Flud. Why is that? Did he not endorse your candidate? Did he not promise a job for your candidate?
Give George a chance? Just as fair is to Give Flud a chance!
Read on and then compare George's history to Mike Flud's history.
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Glad that you didn't let Jason's defeat stop your attacks on Mike Flud. Still don't understand your hatred for Mike. Quit worrying about what is going to happen to A.D and worry about what will happen to this tribe if George is elected.
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Since you have been Jason's main spokesperson and supporter on this site it appears that Jason will be endorsing George Tiger. Jason must be trying to protect his job.mt
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From what I know, I think Jason wants to protect the Nation, first and foremost. He put a lot of time, energy and money into trying to make sure George didn't get elected. I don't think he'd ever back George based on his shady past and empty promises. However, Jason's supporters can and will back whomever they want. Hopefully they are smart enough not to swing George's way.
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What's so bad about the last four years administration?
It's not administration that broke laws in our constutution - it was the NC.
It's not administration that spent gaming money on a couple of people.
You said 'don't judge a book by it's over'.
George is an open book. He steals, embezzels and lies.
Because he hasn't stolen from you personally doesn't mean if given the chance he won't.
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To creek:
WOW. That is the stupidest comment I have ever read on this site. Congratulations!
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What’s being “right” got to do with anything?
It has been said before, and on this site as well, that voting is the lowest form of protest there is. That is because in the Creek Nation getting rid of the bums has never been the purpose for elections. Our elections are for electing candidates who can do the most to satisfy citizen’s narrow interests. Such things as getting “our community’s money back,“ and promises to use what heft they have or can convince voters they have to mitigate any pending prosecution hanging over their heads, is what turns them on. They are not concerned in the least if the candidate is a crook or not, as long as he is their crook is all that matters.
The basic concept of democracy is that the ones with the most votes are the right ones to lead a government. It sounds strange to say, but through the process of elections, we turn crooks into good guys. If a candidate can convince voters he can do more for them than his opponent can, regardless if he does it legally or not, wins. Where is the problem? Its an American tradition.
It is a myth that citizens lose elections. They have always won them and they will always win them. The Creek people have a long and glorious string of successful elections. The candidates who gets the most votes wins; what is unsuccessful about that? Just because we believe that a certain corrupt person should not run for office does not change that. Our elections are not legitimized on our opinions of who is the good or bad guys, but about who gets the most votes. The fact that our elections are irrefutable proof that we elect known crooks to office does not change that.
Let me explain it one more time: the ones with the most votes wins, and that is all that matters.
Even then, crooks have to work hard to win. They have to lie a lot. They have to over promise what they will do. They drive miles, make hundreds of telephone calls. It’s not easy being a successful crook. It is more comfortable to be right and depend on that and lose. Our elections are about nothing else but what a citizens believes candidate can do for them, and not on such petty irrelevancies as what is right or wrong or on trite legalities.
The elections process is predicated on a basic premise that the ones who gets the most votes wins, not the ones who we think are morally superior or the most righteous and should win. The ones who work the hardest, and the ones most invested in their cause and are energized to put out the effort, are the ones who win.
It is all right to believe in right and wrong, but until we learn that we have to work hard too, we have a long road ahead.
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George Tiger is a crook! Plain and simple! What is there to argue! He took the money but never got punished for it! Does that not make him a crook? People argue they want change but if George wins then there will be no change. It will be the same faces and he was one of the main ones fighting A.D., which cost the tribe alot of money in attorney fees! So if you want the Nation to be in the hands of a crook then vote for him thats your right but when you see that you have voted for the wrong person then dont be putting the blame on someone else because our nation is falling further and further behind!
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I will have to hear more from both candidates before making the final decision - what I'm most interested in is their transition plan. Who are you thinking about putting into positions of authority? Let's get it out into the open now because we know that the wheeling and dealing has already started. I'm not interested in supporting any candidate that is satisfied with the status quo (i.e. hiring all your buddies/family members).
This tribal government is already full of honest folk and equally full of thieves, as well. The main focus of this tribal government must be for the betterment of the tribe and not the betterment of the select few. I'm hoping there will be at least one, and possibly more, candidate debates where common citizens have the chance to ask pointed questions. We're no longer interested in lip service - I want to know who your partners are that are going to help you deliver on your campaign promises. If you have the backbone to make that information public then please do so - I have a feeling it will make or break this election.
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Look on the bright side folks. It's entirely possible ol' George will be under a federal indictment by election time anyway. People who have already been pinched tend to dime others out in an attempt to avoid the federal hoosegow.
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RPP..... How true.
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Mike Flud really needs to start campaigning throughout the Nation, let people know who he is, what he has accomplished, how he feels about the tribe and its citizens, and what he can do with cooperation from the other branches. Cooperation is not a one way street, he is a leader who can do it from his branch. He is a very positive person.
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New Topic
Are we exhausted with political forums or can we stand one more between the Chief and Second chief candidates?
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We have had too much of this FORUM non sense. The statements by candidates are all self serving HERE IS WHAT WE NEED
A REAL OLD FASHIONED DEBATE WITH REAL QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE--
NOW THAT I WOULD GO SEE!
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True. We all realize forums are just nonsense as we don't get anything meaningful from the candidates. They all talk about what they're for, how about how they will attain a goal, any goal. Do they have a plan for our tribal problems?
All of you who are active in your communities, make the suggestion to have debates instead of forums or those meet-and-greet events. Yes, those were very good when there are so, so many candidates wanting some time. Real questions can be asked at a debate. Let's give that a try.
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We definitely need to get as much information on whom of the losing candidates for Principal Chief and Second
Chief are going to support now for both offices. I understand that GT is working hard on getting the support of the losers.
It would be interesting to know who Alfred Berryhill will be supporting.
We need to talk to those voters that we know supported the losing candidates and
encourage them to support Flud.
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I most likely won't be voting in the Chief and Second Chief election probley only for the council people. I know about George and also the not so honest side of Flud not near as bad as George but their are issues. The citizens will make their choice and must live with whom ever they elect. You want hear me bitch either way I'll just say I wasn't a part of the choice for the Chief and Second Chief.
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you are sad, the primary didnt go your way so you wont be any support to anyone you sound like a spoiled child. or are you just scared george??
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So Sad are attempting to paint Mike with the same brush that has given George his winning smile. You should team up with poster named Creek, you both sound alike when it comes to Mike. Maybe you are twins.
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Sad ... I believe it irresponsible and grossly unfair to imply Mike Flud is "Not so honest" without stating your reasons. Are we to believe this is factual just because you say it? Still, as you say, "Flud is not near as bad as George". So, if you don't vote for the better of the two, you are voting by default for the worst (George).
Please vote!
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Creek Citizens the ball is your court to seek the best candidate.
Personally I pray daily that the Tignett Zoo Crew (Tiger/Barnett) does not win! Everyone clearly know these two are the biggest loosers within the Nation and is well aware of their HISTORY. Their CDIB should have been revoked for their criminal activities that have and will prevail. Neither one of them should have been ALLOWED to even participate in such an EVENT! These two are unable to manger their own personal finanaces, so what makes them thing they can manage our Nation! Barnett refuses to pay child support. Tiger busy taking money from the Nation.
It is time to DUST the birds of a feathers who flock together....
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Which includes Shirlene Ade, she does flock with the persons mentioned.
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I'd like for George to tell us what he's done by the way of actual "work" in the last 20 years. I know of one example where he's a lazy employee who lasted about 1 week with the company.
I believe that his "work" in the last 20 years has been serving on the Council (a PT job) and some part-time radio/tv work. Someone tell me.
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and what exactly have you done?
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Why would you trash Shirlene Ade? She has to work with these guys and she works with them for the improvement of the quality of life for the people in her district as well as the entire MCN. Have you reviewed the legislation she has written, sponsored and supported during her years on the Council? You would trash her for that? Come on! You need to get a day job or something, you have too much time on your hands.
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You have got to be kidding! Re: Shirlene Ade. She trashes her opponents behind their backs and also her constituents. Her district has no representation for the last four years. All the legislation that she has produced in all those years was her husband writing the legislation. Her district knows all of these things as well as some of the council! Get real!
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What I can't understand is that I never seen any Roger Barnett's campaign signs
anywhere nor any letters; so how did he get all those votes?
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He is George's partner in crime. The George Tiger supporters know this. They come as a team ... birds of a feather.
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