SUPREME COURT - - RECUSAL OF JUSTICES
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Not sure where this should be posted but its breaking news...moderator at your discretion, please post...
http://premium.fileden.com/premium/2008/2/18/1765574/SC1005NoticeofRecusalSupremeCrt.PDF
Not sure where this should be posted but its breaking news...moderator at your discretion, please post...
http://premium.fileden.com/premium/2008/2/18/1765574/SC1005NoticeofRecusalSupremeCrt.PDF
RECUSE ?
Do parents "RECUSE" themselves when they don't agree about what is best for the family?
RECUSE: to disqualify (oneself) as judge in a particular case.
What the heck is going on?
If six 'educated' people can't think in one mind and get along we need to shut down the tribe.
Hide and watch - those three female justices are setting this nation up for failure.
All the cases from this point on will be 3/3 and "RECUSE" will become a household word.
What an example they are setting for Creek people - loyalty & respect is gone. The justices voted for Jonodev Chaudhuri to be Chief Justice and now politics has taken the front seat over what is best for the people.
Look into the future of this nation.
It's time for the Federal Government to step in. Creek Nation is no longer a self-governing nation.
CREEK NATION IS IN POLITICAL CHAOS.
THE TRIBE CAN NO LONGER GOVERN ITSELF.
THERE ARE TOO MANY SELF SERVING MANIACS.
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Are these 3 female justices admitting to a Conflict of Interest against the Chief Justice, the District Court Judge, the Chief or the MCN? What exactly are they recusing themselves from? To not be in agreement with the Chief Justice? Are they a team of 3 against the other 3 justices? Are they saying their empass about Judge Moore is still stalemated? Can they recuse themselves as a group, not individually? Too many questions and no answers. All they are showing me is that they are a house divided, and they don't really care if they bring down our Nation and our Sovereignty.
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"...All they are showing me is that they are a house divided, and they don't really care if they bring down our Nation and our Sovereignty...."
You make a great point...how far will it go before before it becomes un-repairable...image is everything today when our sole means to make money is from the good ole Okie...when will the citizens of Oklahoma become alarmed enough to stay away from Creek businesses because of lawlessness and the lack of governing...a Chickasaw was asking me yesterday why the Creek government was so screwed up, whats up with the day after day, month after month, year after year of infighting...he was so right...what can I say...its a freaking mess...have the citizens had enough of this recycle crap year after year....again, you got a good head on your shoulders and want too help the people by running and replacing recycled Creek politicians...call me up...Im interested in listening to why you want my vote!
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TONIGHT !!!
NATIONAL COUNCIL EMERGENCY SESSION - SEPTEMBER 9, 2010
Around & Around we go
Where we stop
Nobody knows
LET THE LAWSUITS BEGIN !!!!
Tonight the elected National Council are voting on a lawsuit to be filed against the Principal Chief for firing Ex-AG Roger Wiley.
He was hired by Chief and Chief can fire him. The fact that he was confirmed by National Council doesn't have anything to do with it.
What's the deal with confirmation by the National Council. The AG is an employee of the Nation - not an elected official.
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The Constitution of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Article VI Section 7.(f) allows the employ of legal counsel (to help them with their legislative duties). There just is not any constitutional authority for the National Council to sue anyone. Suits on behalf of the Nation are an executive function and simply not within the purview of legislators. Such an exercise will only waste money, which is apparently in short supply, and further ridicule all citizens before other Tribes, the state and federal government. How ignorant can the legislature be! All who support such a folly simply need to resign so others can put the Nation on the right track, if they do not then they must be retired.
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IN THE MATTER OF THE EXTENDED TERM OF OFFICE OF DISTRICT COURT JUDGE PATRICK MOORE, CASE NO. SC-10-15.
ANSWER OF PATRICK E. MOORE
Judge Moore in his nine page Answer to the Supreme Court ended with the following points.
Patrick E. Moore, Pro Se, respectfully request the Supreme Court of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation review, accept and consider all case law and Muscogee (Creek) Nation statutory law as set out in this answer. The Muscogee (Creek) Supreme Court said it best when in Ellis v Muscogee (Creek) National Council, SC 06-07 Muscogee (Creek) (2007) it stated:
“We think that the highest court of a sovereign government, when created by the Constitution of that government which recognized the principal of separation of powers, is entitled to be free to function as the framers of the Constitution intended, and should guard its prerogatives jealously to preserve its powers as an independent co-equal branch of government.”
The Administrative Orders issued by this Court on both June 30th and July 30th 2010 were issued constitutionally and with the powers of the Supreme Court of this Nation to issue. The petitioner’s to this action have no standing to sue because they have alleged no injury real or immediate. It cannot be argued that it is not in this Nation’s best interest to have a fully functioning court system continuing uninterrupted until such time as the Principal Chief nominates a duly qualified Creek citizen, who is then approved by a majority of the National Council, then appointed by the Principal Chief to be District Judge.
The Nation’s Supreme Court exercised its constitutional powers in continuing the term of the current District Court Judge and the Petitioners should be estopped from arguing otherwise.
The allegations contain in the Petition do not create any claim upon which this lawsuit can proceed. The Muscogee (Creek) Nation Supreme Court has the constitutional power and authority to dismiss this matter Nostra sponte without notice.”
(Judge Moore is reminding the Court that a person cannot file a lawsuit on an issue that they do not have a stake. This is likely to be the same issue should the Council vote to sue the Principal Chief over the firing of the Attorney General, again, it is none of the Council‘s business.)
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It’s Sovereignty, Stupid
What kind of government would dig their heals in the ground and steadfastly decide that lawbreakers should never be prosecuted or even investigated? What nation would have a Supreme Court so partisan and unable to exercise reason and become immobilized and bring a nation to a halt? What kind of nation would have a supreme court that had repeatedly reminded citizens they would not become involved in politics and then become involved in politics?
What civilized nation would have a legislature that uses its law-making authority to punish its citizens, that allows them to interfere with law enforcement authorities, that have members who serve while violating the constitution, and that engages in activities in which they have no constitution authority? A sovereign tribal government, that’s who. .
What civilized nation would go through the long and drawn out process of having a Constitutional Convention, and then allow their government make the final decision about what to do with the results? What kind of nation would have a Constitution that only protects the government? .
And what is worst, your government can do that, and there is not anything anyone can do about it. Why?, we‘re sovereign, that’s why.
Do you think that’s the worst bad news? Well, its not. If the judiciary, especially the Supreme Court, decides to listen to the National Council and goes off half-cocked and punishes you, even to the point of removing your name from the tribal roll, and you wanted to do something about it, you can forget that too. It‘s sovereignty, stupid.
In July 2008, Deborah K. Hendrix, was disenrolled from the Comanche Tribe for circulating a petition. She thought she could do something about it too. (see Deborah K. Hendrix v. Wallace Coffee) A federal court ruled that as a sovereign nation, the Comanche Tribe could decide on issues involving their membership. And, how about the Indian Civil Rights Act? She tried that too. The court ruled they have no authority to act on that matter either because it involved tribal sovereignty issues too. The court clarified that the only time a federal court can become involve in an issue with a sovereign tribe is decide habeas corpus (unlawful detention).
Sovereignty is not for you, citizen man and woman, it’s for your government. Your tribal government is supposed to abide by the rules of compassion and fair play and take care of you, but if they don’t, there is not a damn thing you can do about it, and the U.S. Government cannot help you.
In a sovereign tribal society, citizens are on their own. Unless you have a cat, then its you and your cat, but that’s it.
Isn’t sovereignty great or what?
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...nicely said...
Hendrex should review the Vann vs Salazar case in DC district court...the DC court of appeals said the Cherokee Nation is sovereign indeed and cannot be sued unless it waved its sovereignty, however they went further and said that individuals (their leaders) are 'not sovereign' and can be sued for violating people's civil rights (or in that case the 13th amendment)...she should look into suing them individually for violating her civil rights...
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Who says they voted for Chaudhuri as Chief Justice? Probably didn't agree on that either. They are voting 3 to 3, so how many times has that happened in the Orders that have come down from SC and CJ still issuing and signing his name, giving us the impression it was a majority vote. Who knows?
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The Honorable Jon Chaudhuri was already serving as Chief Justice before Justice Supernaw was appointed several months back...
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Yes, that's true but that only leaves five Justices and the vote had to be 2 to 2 because Chaudhuri can't or shouldn't vote for himself. Stalemate (again)!
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Bro..its really easy to call the Supreme Court clerk and ask for the vote...its public information. Since you are concerned why Justice Chaudhuri is Head Justice report back to us.
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Justice Chaudhuri is Chief Justice because he was properly elected as required by the Constitution to the position and then retained by his fellow Justices because according to sources inside the National Council another Justice or Justices were playing footsie with some Council members.
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Word keeps circulating that it is Justice Leah Ware that continues to contact the council and its speaker. None of them, ethically, have no business doing that. Maybe its more than footsies. Ms Ware has been around a long time, so I'm sure she has developed close friendships with some of those on the council.
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New word........"close friendship's".
If it was only that
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I believe this is when I need to stand up and defend the Honorable Justice Leah Harjo-Ware. I have been the Supreme Court Clerk for the past 3 years and retired as of August 31, 2010 because I have reached the ripe old age of 62.
I can truthfully attest that Justice Leah Harjo-Ware has exemplified nothing but honesty and integrity in her role as a Supreme Court Justice. She not only has a vast knowledge of the Muscogee (Creek) Constitution and the MCN Code of Law, but also of the United States Federal Law. She would always research and be prepared to deliberate on the many cases that were before the MCN Supreme Court and never let any personal preferences cloud her decision on a case.
Before I came to Creek Nation, I worked for lawyers and judges in Tulsa for 27 years and can honestly state that Justice Leah Harjo-Ware is one of the best Lawyers/Judges I have had the pleasure of working for.
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Thank you for your honest opinion of Leah Ware.
Some still have a big problem with her siding with the National Council on the issue of the "Constitution Commission."
She was the only Justice that said National Council Reps could fill all seats of the Commission.
Justices are not suppose to voice their opinion let along write a letter against the majority of Justices. It shows that the Supreme Court is not unified. That case was in 2007. She didn't agree with the majority and tarnished her name at that time.
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I didn't call the Supreme Court Clerk; I am the former Supreme Court Clerk that was in office when Justice Chaudhuri, Justice McNac and Justice Shirley conspired to keep Chaudhuri in as Chief Justice when there is a Supreme Court Administrative Order that states a Justice cannot succeed himself/herself, but when I called this to their attention, they totally disregarded it. The female Justices tried to tell them it wasn't right and Justice Mouser nominated Justice Harjo-Ware but they ignored that nomination. It's true Justice Supernaw wasn't on board then, and the vote was 2 to 2, but Chaudhuri voted for himself, so it was 3 to 2.
That was so wrong and I stood up for what was right on several occasions because of what I saw going on in the Supreme Court, but all it got me was being put on Administrative Leave on June 2, 2010 and then I retired when I turned 62 in September of 2010. I had originally planned to work until I was 66, but I feel I was forced to retire at 62. I worked for lawyers/judges in the white world for 27 years and then 3 years for Creek Nation and I have NEVER been treated the way the 3 male Justices treated me!
The best thing Chief Ellis could do since Justice McNac and Justice Shirley didn't get confirmed is to nominate 2 attorneys that will abide by the Judicial Code of Ethics that the OBA imposes on attorneys who are members of the Oklahoma Bar Association and are full of honesty and integrity.
I felt privileged to work for Justice Mouser and Justice Harjo-Ware and was looking forward to working for Justice Supernaw. The Lady Justices were full of honesty and integrity and I felt honored to have worked for them.
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Speaker Barnett wrote a letter to the S. C. dated 7/16/10, re: NC wanting to have a forensic audit on Judicial Branch. The Chief Justice responded to the Speaker in a letter dated 7/23/10 & signed by the C. J. outlining reasons not to do it.
I'm now wondering if all the S. C. Justices turned down the audit requested by the NC, or were those 3 women in favor of having the audit performed on their court?
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you know like us all i have been standing back and i do not see a creek tribe. all that i see is political chaos and it reminds me more and more of the white government. what about our elders, widows,our homeless and our kids. none of these things are ever really dealt with only if there is going to be pictures taken.
its sad to see our elders and to remember those long gone with how corrupt our tribe has become.i usually do not even read this website, because i feel that to many people gripe and don't do anything about the problem.
to me; problem is the selfishness of our elected officials. not all are that way, but i believe we truly know the ones who are.
its always their personal agendas and simply the fact they get personal with every issue.
personalty needs to be removed so we can move on. i know these are known things and that we are all aware of them.
next thing is what are we going to do about it, so far no one has taken a stand or even tried to confront those who are the cause of our problems.
i believe we all need to take a stand an let them know that they were not born with whatever power they think they have, the only power they have is what was given to them by our people, so we need to let them know that we can take it back.
now i know some one will quote something out of the constitution, to be truthful thats not even helping our people, the only thing it is helping is the politicians who reside in the offices.
so i believe it's time we all take a stand.
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You are correct. One reason is because the corrupt council members (maybe all the council members), were not raised to respect the elders or to respect our way of life (the old ways), they have simply taken on the ways of greed and selfishness. Next time any of them says they care about & respect our elders, remind them they're lying.
I have not given up on the might of the Constitution. It will take more than some ignorant Council member to convince me that the Constitution is worthless for the citizens. That may be what they're trying to do, but its just a cover for their illegal actions. And we will not allow them to forget.
Ask a council member if they believe in our Constitution.
Ask them if they believe in the MCN Organizational Chart, which makes up the Chain of Command - and it looks like the Chief has authority over the AG and its offices.
Ask them if the Constitution states that the NC has authority over other branches of government.
Ask them what the Legislative Branch does, according to the Constitution, other than write legislation.
I could go and on. Believe me, I'm one of those who do ask council members questions. And I continue to read the Constitution again and again.
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well of course the council legislates. The chief also took a oath to up hold the laws of the nation. If it is not said in the constitution on removal, the the constitution give the council the authority to make laws for it. The chief needs to follow those laws and the lighthorse needs to enforce them. Who ever is reading the laws to them are not reading it loud enough I guess.
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The laws apply to all the 3 branches of the MCN. My observances are that the NC has violated their oaths too, many more times than the Chief. In fact, I assume you have been observing what has been occurring commencing with the George Tiger's speaker's era. It didn't just start the other day. Yes, the NC has the authority to make laws, therein lies the problem. They make all sorts of laws - for others. They don't follow any of their own laws. Didn't the NC raise a ruckus when the Chief did utilize the LightHorse to enforce a law? I don't know what you're thinking about, and I don't think you do either.
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to my understanding the chief and the NC have broken several laws. but neither the Chief nor the NC should be over any kind of Justice/ whether is be the Ag's office, or LH.. you can not mix politics with the law.. it does not work. you get people calling in favors to cover stuff up. I'm not saying that this is happening, but that is why the NC should have been there when they voted on the LH commission... but they were not there.. they did not have enough Council members there to do what needed to be done
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Regardless of 'your understanding', it is the Constitutional laws that the Chief is over the AG and LH. No one was complaining about LH until the NC decided that the LH Chief must be a card-carrying Creek, which is only because of politics since they don't like the present LH Chief, who now does have a card. About the AG, constitutionally, he does work for the Executive Branch, not for the NC. But the AG misinterpreted the laws he is supposed to be knowledgeable about, and has actually chosen sides and aligned himself with the NC. Now tell us, who is breaking the laws?
Sometimes NC members don't show up because they don't want it on record as to how they voted on a particularly hot issue. Not smart, but self-protecting.
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This is the way it is, council member: the council does not have authority to make laws or change existing laws for the Chief or another branch of the government. If other branches had this authority, what do you suppose would have happened to you by now? You would be a keepsake and something kept for its interesting associations with a distant and notorious past.
Do citizens have to tell you again about the separation of powers? How many times do you have to lose this argument in court before you get it through your considerably thick head? You are not the boss of this Nation. Get over it!
If you want to get rid of the doctrine of the separation of powers, don’t pussy foot around it, throw caution to the wind and go for it, or STFU!
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observer wrote:
all that i see is political chaos and it reminds me more and more of the white government.
It reminds me of professional wrestling. You have the "baby faces" (Executive Branch), and the "heels" (legislative branch). The heels cheat and break the rules all the time and nobody is really surprised and nothing is done about it because we expect it. But if the baby faces breaks or bends the rules...then you have the referee(Judicial Branch) come in to admonish the baby face and possibly disqualify him, or in our case file a lawsuit. But all the while the heels were doing the same, or even worse, the referee conveniently had his back turned. We are now at the point in the match where the baby faces are "fighting fire with fire", and the announcers and fans (Creek citizens)are either cheering them on for man-ing up, or crying foul because they are breaking the rules and not competing in the spirit of fair play. Stay tuned Wrestling Fans. This promises to be a slobber-knocker.
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Heh. Interesting analogy. And spot on, too.
One thing is VERY clear - it's time for ALL of the citizens of the Nation to get VERY interested in the next election.
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you know our people have suffered enough, its not about how many buildings you can build, not about how many memo's you can send out to make it tough on the employees, its not about overriding through some executive order to place your judge back in place, its not about how the constitution can be twisted and turned for the benefit of the elected officials and it is definitely not about who has the power.
as long as we have the present executive officials it would seem that these are whats important.
i often wonder what happen to the concern for all the tribal members when these official were running for office, after all they had to appeal to the members in order to get there votes. i'm not talking about promises, but i am talking in how that they seemed so concern about the people.
that tribe is more than just the complex that houses offices that house that programs for this nation. the tribe is more than any political agenda that anyone can hold, because that tribe is about people.
unfortunately a people who have been forgotten since the issue pf trying to assume all power is more important, remember you know what runs downhill and head where it comes from sits at the top.
heck none of this is about us as individual if we are to be a tribe, it should be about us all.
that is why i feel that our people need to come to gather and begin to make a difference. these official were not born with this power they feel they have, they are allowed only the use of when they are elected by the people. so there true source of power comes from the people and i feel that the people have the right to take it back if need be.
we can discuss the constitution all night and not get any where. we know that it is being twisted for those who want to take advantage. i am not saying that it is not important, i am saying this is an argument that will never die because we feel we have the most correct view.
i don't know if they even consider the fact that every time they twist the constitutions fer the advantage, all they are doing is spitting in the face of the people. the reason i say this is again there are no individual's we are a tribe and the moment a persons places him or herself in an advantage point thats the moment no one else matters.
in oder for the chaos to the people have to assume the power they have as a tribe. because right now know one seems to know how to end it, it has to start from the people we still have that right. does this mean that it will all go away once they act upon this right, no but it will be a good place to start. so that all the trouble that is evident will finally be able to be laid to rest.
i don't know about how every one else feel, i think it is time the complex becomes a place where our elders can come and sat and visit, you probably say this a place of business. my response to that is that what has got where we are at.
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