NEW INTENTS of COUNCIL
VOC MUST ISSUE A CORRECTION DUE TO HAVING OVERLOOKED A BILL ON THE 7-31-2010 NC MEETING AGENDA, #NCA 10-144 WHICH WE HAD REFERRED TO UNDER THIS TOPIC. We do apologize for such a glaring oversite on our part.
The legislation was approved by a vote of 17 yes and 2 no. It does do away with the 'Citizens Legal Services', to be replaced by this 'MCN Legal Services Dept.' as of 10/1/2010, another Independent Board, with Commissioners, etc. Supposedly its a hands off by the NC & others, but you know how that goes.
It does not mention anything about the over 500 cases pending with the Citizens Legal Services, whether those cases are to be turned over to the new department automatically, without any problem. That question should be asked.
AND VOC BELIEVES THIS IS ONE OF THOSE NEW LAWS THE NC CREATES WITHOUT ANY DEEP-THINKING, AND WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY ANY CITIZEN INPUT. THAT IS STILL NOT RIGHT. WHO DID THEY TALK TO? ROGER, GEORGE AND FIFE, THAT MUCH WE DO KNOW.
WITH THE CHIEF'S VETO, IT GIVES THE CITIZENS MORE TIME TO DIGEST ANY CHANGES THAT WILL AFFECT THEM, AND HAVE ALL THEIR ISSUES CLEARED UP.
NOTE TO ALL: There's always something new the NC thinks up, and then goes and messes good programs up. THE NEW INTENT OF THE COUNCIL IS UNTENABLE and INSUPPORTABLE.
THE NC HAS PASSED LEGISLATION TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE LEGAL SERVICES. This is just another issue someone on the NC is unhappy with so they will eliminate an entire program, never mind how much the legal services mean for us citizens. Their way of getting even or getting revenge. I wonder who those NC members might be. If we find out, we will publish the names.
The Chief has VETOED it, so support the Chief's decision.
The legislation was approved by a vote of 17 yes and 2 no. It does do away with the 'Citizens Legal Services', to be replaced by this 'MCN Legal Services Dept.' as of 10/1/2010, another Independent Board, with Commissioners, etc. Supposedly its a hands off by the NC & others, but you know how that goes.
It does not mention anything about the over 500 cases pending with the Citizens Legal Services, whether those cases are to be turned over to the new department automatically, without any problem. That question should be asked.
AND VOC BELIEVES THIS IS ONE OF THOSE NEW LAWS THE NC CREATES WITHOUT ANY DEEP-THINKING, AND WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY ANY CITIZEN INPUT. THAT IS STILL NOT RIGHT. WHO DID THEY TALK TO? ROGER, GEORGE AND FIFE, THAT MUCH WE DO KNOW.
WITH THE CHIEF'S VETO, IT GIVES THE CITIZENS MORE TIME TO DIGEST ANY CHANGES THAT WILL AFFECT THEM, AND HAVE ALL THEIR ISSUES CLEARED UP.
NOTE TO ALL: There's always something new the NC thinks up, and then goes and messes good programs up. THE NEW INTENT OF THE COUNCIL IS UNTENABLE and INSUPPORTABLE.
THE NC HAS PASSED LEGISLATION TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE LEGAL SERVICES. This is just another issue someone on the NC is unhappy with so they will eliminate an entire program, never mind how much the legal services mean for us citizens. Their way of getting even or getting revenge. I wonder who those NC members might be. If we find out, we will publish the names.
The Chief has VETOED it, so support the Chief's decision.
The way I understand it is this lady picks and chooses who gets help (does this sound like all our other so called free services?). My daughter needed help with a child custody battle and they waited until the last minute to say they couldn't help her. She had already let her lawyer go because said they couldn't help unless she did. Well we combined our resource the last minute and rehired this lawyer since he had knowledge of the case already and it cost her more because of the last minute change for him to be there. Either make them do what they are supposed to do or eliminate it.
You don’t know if this lady picks and chooses (your words) all you know is that you didn’t get what you thought you deserved and went to running to the council. Who will you run to when the Council begins hacking into the new system to get information to keep you in line? , assuming you are not already toeing the council line.
NCA 10-144 - Amending Title 35 - MCN Legal Services
17 Yes, 2 No
Abstain: 0
Voting No:
James Jennings
Keeper Johnson
Absent:
Terrie Anderson
Pete Beaver
Steve Bruner
Selina Jayne
Kara Medina
David Nichols
VOC what is the number for the legislation that ended the legal service...I can't find it.
(VOC: Mr. Grayson: Legislation # NCA 10-144. VOC let this one slip by as the NC voted approval 17 Yes, 2 No --- on 7/31/10.)
i read the legislation, I do not believe that the intent is to do away with the legal services department. if anything its gonna better it. we need people who can defend out creek citizens out there that are sitting in jail with a charge he can not defend because there is no legal help that can assist him through the tribe. Why? because the legal service can only handle family law, not fraud, sexual battery. I think it is great, and we need this. This is what is wrong with the nation now, we are afraid of change. this nation is only one sided, we need to stop bickering and stand up for one another. not against each other.
We don't need to change anything. It sounds as if we just need to add more services, which would mean a whole other group of attorneys who know laws concerning those convicted or in jail. Present legal services does not have to be touched.
To have it pointed out that something is wrong is not bickering, its standing up for the tribe.
Maybe you can tell us the number of the law since you have read it, so we can all know who the sponsor is, what committee, etc.
This is more of Bill Fifes doing, it is apparent that he has an axe to grind with this program or its Director. Mr. Fife is like a cancer his hatred is spreading throughout the National Council, I for one hope that his time in office will be short and that someone will replace him that is more deserving.
(VOC: BINGO!)
I agree wholeheartedly that Fife has an axe to grind, only he has several axes to grind. Apparently he could'nt bring this great Nation to its knees as a one-term Chief so he ran for the National Council so he could finish his devious work. If, and I stress IF, he was really concerned about the wellbeing of this Nation he would tell, not ask, his wannabe Lighthorse Chief son to return the $20,000 he stole from this Nation. I pray that the citizens from the southern districts demand accountability from their un-couth representatives and vote them out of office if accountability is not forthcoming. Citizens need to demand that their representatives listen to them, their constituents, instead of other council representatives. The NC wants complete control of this nation and their recent legislative actions indicate that. They stick their noses into personnel matters, which is NOT their responsibility, and want to put their people in the upper management of this tribe. The Fife(s)need to go and they can take Alexander, Medina, Wind, Dornan, Barnett, Tiger and all others in their clique with them. Concerned citizens can make this happen at the polls. Mvto!
You are so right. Make it happen at the polls.
Next year is election year.
All existing NC members will have to relinquish their seats and run against each other for 16 seats.
Watch the loyalty drop. When they are fighting each other for a seat there won't be any loyalty among thieves like there is now.
It won't be so easy for Billy Fife to get elected and you can bet he won't outwardly support George Tiger for Chief. Sam Alexander certainly won't support GT. His ex was the investigator on the case at Okmulgee Community when George Tiger stole that $36,000.
It's been a long time coming. Campaigning the whole nation costs a lot of money - ask George Tiger. The hats, cups, t-shirts, bumper stickers, car payoffs, home payoffs, dish cloths-spoons-& bowls to ceremonial grounds, paid campaign manager, rental cars and all the other stuff that was paid for will cost even more next year than in 2007. But he probably has a warehouse full somewhere.
The NC members running for re-election will have to do the same thing. That's why they keep trying to give those ex- gaming communities all that money. They know they're going to need it for campaigning.
Who will receive the first payoff, who will cast the first stone, who will tell the first lie and who will raise the most money.
Last year the National Council would NOT SUPPORT 'Campaign Reform." Ask David Nichols about that legislation. He sponsored the bill.
What are the facts and documents on this Tiger $36,000.00. Who is this ex of Alexander's that investigated Tiger, what are her statements? Who on the Council would not support David Nichols "Campaign Reform".
There will be payoffs, some already have probably occurred, rocks will be thrown-whether they hit home is the big question- the first lie has already been told long ago, from the money end no one will ever know, but all can find out who has trucks given to them, loans paid off, free lodging provided, meals and trips paid for, BUT these persons who have taken things of value in the past messed up the tobacco business, the Trade and Commerce business and they will eventually begin to in fight over what they perceive as control well before the next election process begins.
Truer words were never written, name one piece of productive legislation any of those listed have introduced, they are all wrapped up in self ingratiation and ego-mania. Bill Fife works for Thlothlocco, a federally recognized Tribal Town with interests against the Creek Nation, he is also a master at attempted threats against anyone he perceives doesn't agree with him, he doesn't honor his oath of office to the Creek Nation and if he were a real man would resign so he can devote all his time to the other tribal government and cease unconstitutional double dipping. Alexander has so many personal problems he can not tell good from bad and certainly associates with undesirables and promotes incompetents. Medina's police blotter should be notice to other council members she is not a law abiding citizen. Wind has been around so long she believes she understands how a government is to operate, by hook and crook. Dornan just doesn't have the horse power to understand the role of a legislator and certainly hasn't ever represented this Nation's citizens, only the few she perceives can return her to office next year, how shallow. Barnett really is an example of the peter principle(literally) he is many levels above his ability level and far from the example this Nation needs to set for people outside our government (and all in our government) always know his motives(himself) and ability(none). Tiger he can only puff his product, he enjoys no reputation amongst honorable people and those outside our government believe him to be untrustworthy and always out for himself. None of these persons should ever be entrusted with any governmental authority now or in the future.
Correction: I was at one time not a law-abiding citizen and took full responsibility for my DUI. I also paid the fines, did the community service and everything I was required to do. But since we are on this subject, not only I but others in our Nation, many others, have struggled with the pains and chains of alcoholism and if my experience can help someone else who has been through the same predicament, then it will not have been in vain. I'm not proud of my decisions that led to the conviction in 2008, but I believe that God can use my experience to help others who are suffering under the same weight of guilt to know that they are not alone. I truly do care about the people I represent, which is in reality this whole Tribe, for all of you are my fellow brethren, and I know that I alone do not have all of the answers to our Nation's problems, but that it is time to work together and try and do what we can to build one another up, not tear one another down. If people tear me down, that's one thing, but to see our Tribe at odds and warring amongst ourselves truly does break my heart because I went into this job wanting to help and anyone who reaches out for help, I hope that I can be a resource- I may or may not be able to help, but I can promise you that I will try my hardest. I ask that God's blessings rain down upon our Nation and that we stand united rather than divided.
To: Ms Medina:
What you read is our perception of you and the Council. I personally don't believe you have done anything or any voting that shows you truly do care about the people (whole tribe). Yes, it has been a long time, now passed, that we should work together and haven't. That is the main cause of our Tribe at odds - the Council against the Citizens. You have been in the middle of the adversity against the citizens. Are you now stating that you will no longer be a follower, that you will be a true rep, as you make promises to try your hardest? Many of your voting constituents do not agree with all the issues the NC has rammed down our throats, saying what's best for us. We seem to disagree that what you have represented does not come close to being 'for the good of the Nation'. And we will not be united until you and your friends on the NC cease to divide us. Thank you.
wow doesnt speak for me
I didn't say anywhere that I spoke for Erica. Many of us who do keep track of NC members, legislations and votes do feel as I do, although I didn't take a poll. Even if there isn't any agreeable ones, I do stand by my words.
I wonder what do you stand for? Or are you just an anti, regardless?
Why do you always vote the same as George Tiger? Do you believe he has the best interests of citizens too?
To Kara:
The VOC has asked an important question: “ (VOC also takes issue with the language within NCA 10-144 . We do not have to provide such services to those who are not enrolled members. How are they eligible for enrollment under our laws, but haven't enrolled? Why enroll at all if services will be provided to you? What are we missing here? Tell us.”
§ 10-104: Eligibility for Services. All enrolled members of the MCN are eligible for all services provided by the MCN Legal Services Department. In addition, the assistance may be extended to individuals who are not enrolled members but are eligible for enrollment under the MCN Constitution and Laws, and to other individuals who come within the jurisdiction of the MCN and entitled to indigent defense counsel as ordered by the Courts of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. No MCN citizen is eligible for payment of legal expenses by the MCN except through the MCN Legal Services Department.
Not all enrolled members are eligible. I (an erolled member 3/4)was refused services. I needed help getting my child away from a drug infested environment but since my ex-wife used them for our divorce, they wouldn't help me, stating it was a conflict of interest to use my ex-wifes lawyer. After working many many 14 hour days and odd jobs when I could, I was able to pay for a lawyer and recieve full custody of my child. My child still suffered too long and is still deeply affected because it took months to make the money. I could not raise the money quick enough for a divorce lawyer or I would have got my son to begin with.
Kara, Kara, Kara, …
You are not going to turn your back on the ones who put you into office. You are not on the council because you were the best qualified, but because the hoodlums on the council made tons of contacts, and no telling what else for you. In return you pledged to do their bidding; in other words you sold out to them. So what’s up with all this jazz about rainbows and unicorns and dancing fairies, and all of us getting together and singing kumbayah?
But who am I to say that you have not had an experience with The Great Unknown? Please, after you climb down from Mount Sinai, will you talk to Pearl Thomas?
who are the best qualified? where are they? did they lose in the election? lol
Is Ms. Madina sorry for falling down drunk on the escalator while on travel status paid for by the tribe? Was that a good representation of our National Council to the other tribe?
Yes, we heard all about it.
It's not just the DUI Medina should be ashamed of. What lesson did she learn and how can she teach us from her mistakes?
I never fell down drunk on an escalator- if I did I would admit it. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life I should be ashamed of but I can honestly say being drunk on an escalator is not one of them. I've never pretended to be on Mount Sinai- I just want to see the people in our Nation work together and not be fighting amongst ourselves. The times I have been outspoken it's because I felt the situation or law was wrong and I will never be ashamed for standing up for what I feel is right. However, I am open-minded and if people have information which may be to the contrary, I would welcome it. I have not sold out to anyone- I make up my mind based on each piece of legislation brought before me. I just want to help, that's all and if anything in my life or career can be used to help someone else, by all means I will be willing to do whatever I can. Mvto and I truly love each and every one of you.
Kara
Law is law, whether you think its wrong. We are trying our darndest to live by the laws you & your group personalize as you choose. If all you have tried to do is just to help, maybe you should change strategies and go the other way since your decisions on the NC haven't helped us citizens. And you do say that you will be willing to do whatever you can. My suggestions.
Was Kara trying to help & work together when she asked Judge Moore in February about ETHICS when he was up for reappointment.
Kara asking Judge Moore about ethics!! The audience was embarrassed and ashamed of her. And, all the other sickening National Council members just sat there and let her harass Judge.
Okay maybe she hasn't sold out. That means she is just plain evil, ignorant and a follower of those that are just like her.
Bill Fife is indeed destroying this Nation, BUT all of those who vote for any law he proposes are guilty as well.
Please get the voting records on all Fife legislation so all will then know who NOT TO SUPPORT IN THE FUTURE.
For some members of the council revenge and total control is very apparent and it is sad that this group has forgotten that they are to strengthen the Nation and not destroy what past leaders for years have tried to build.What is also sad is that some members of this Nation will allow the destruction to continue by continually allowing the same old group to be elected. The question is how much more can this Nation take and how long can it hold out? Will our children and grand children have a Nation to represent them as being Creek? Something to think about.
The purpose of the legislation is not to remove legal services entirely. The purpose is to provide oversight and save money for the tribe. Currently the clinic run under a contract with the firm of Glendening, McKenna, Prescott, and Robertson. It is a multi-attorney firm, However, Shannon is the attorney that runs the legal clinic. The other partners and attorneys in the Tulsa office are not indian, they do not practice indian law, and they do not take part in clinic services. However, their firm benefits from the close to MILLION dollar contract that is allocated for the clinic. It's absurd that an outside law firm is charged with a duty that could be easily taken care of by the Nation. As well, under Ms. Prescott's management, in around 2 years more than 6 attorneys have left the clinic. As well the clinic does not provide services as called for under the statute. Under the statute, the clinic is to provide community outreach services, it has not done so. The clinic was to service clients with a wide range of legal problems, it has not done so. The clinic practices mainly family law and very minor criminal cases. The limited services that they offer will be enhanced by increased oversight and better retention practices for attorneys. There is no doubt that the work at the clinic can be difficult and overwhelming, however there is no excuse for the mistreatment and mismanagement of attorneys within that office. Many good attorneys have left due to Ms. Prescott's behavior and the blatent lack of respect for many administrative, goverment, and legal personnel at the Nation. As well the Nation has received NUMEROUS calls regarding the poor or complete lack of services for their legal issues. I believe that legal services is a great program for Creek citizens, and I fully advocate its continuance, but I cannot support such a large amount of money being thrown outside the Tribe, when we are fully capable of handling such a program under the oversight and capable hands of any number of program departments. Business is business, it saves the tribe money, while continuing to benefit tribal citizens.
To the most dim-witted saying of the week:
Re: transitioning of legal services to the MCN (but really to the control of National Council)
Citizens thought their Nation had problems, but they didn’t know how much until they read the following quote from a National Council who is apparently experiencing a period of amnesia.
The quote from anonymous:
“… I cannot support such a large amount of money being thrown outside the Tribe, when we are fully capable of handling such a program under the oversight and capable hands of any number of program departments.”
Do you mean that we can capably handle an MCN Legal Services Department like we have the Trade & Commerce Authority? Do you mean that the National Council has not been responsible “for a large amount of money being thrown outside the Tribe.” Do you mean that the National Council won’t hand-pick any number of capable hands of department directors and managers to do their bidding? Do you mean that if fraud is suspected in the MCN Legal Services Department, or if complaints are heard, that the National Council will be on it like a duck on a June bug?
Citizens would be much more confident in the transition of our legal services if the National Council would insist that the Attorney General do his job and investigate the findings of the forensic audits and potential thievery of T&C Authority funds and the possibility of National Council involvement, the missing and unexplained missing community funds, Jeff Fife and Daniel Winds swindling of funds, the “on the fly” style of legislating, Bill Fife’s employment with another tribe while serving on the Council, or why, he, the self-anointed wizard of the constitution still believes that he is right and the Supreme Court is wrong when they allowed Judge Moore to remain on the Constitution Convention, and an explanation how the criteria that the Council uses to chooses which complaints to use or not use when they interfere in tribal programs works (which are none of the council’s business, I might add).
Citizens would have been so exited about the transition of the legal services to the MCN if the National Council would have done just one thing in the last ten years that benefited citizens instead of doing something for themselves and against citizens‘ interests. Are you now going to tell us, you are doing this for us?
Why don’t you, Bill Fife, since you’re so powerful, write legislation and get rid of the VOC and replace it with your own web site? You could call it The Legislooters.
NOTHING GOOD OR POSITIVE
It's just about power and control. The NC wants the CONTROL of a legal service department, to be able to tell a tribal employee what to do, who to help, who NOT to help and be able to get nosy with citizens personal legal needs.
That is what irked one of the NC members. He wasn't able to sit in on a Will that a citizen was having legally done.
The National Council would have authority just as they do with any other program in the Nation.
They can demand to know what is going on and personal information about cases.
They will never stay out of business that is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
Truly can't wait for the election.
Removal of all existing council members is the only thing that can give us hope.
Also vetoed #NCA 10-144 which would do away with our legal service department, Citizen Legal Services Dept., and one of the reasons given is the following:
§ 10-104: Eligibility for Services. All enrolled members of the MCN are eligible for all services provided by the MCN Legal Services Department. In addition, the assistance may be extended to individuals who are not enrolled members but are eligible for enrollment under the MCN Constitution and Laws, and to other individuals who come within the jurisdiction of the MCN and entitled to indigent defense counsel as ordered by the Courts of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. No MCN citizen is eligible for payment of legal expenses by the MCN except through the MCN Legal Services Department.
(VOC also takes issue with the language within NCA 10-144 . We do not have to provide such services to those who are not enrolled members. How are they eligible for enrollment under our laws, but haven't enrolled? Why enroll at all if services will be provided to you? What are we missing here? Tell us.)
Certain members of the National Council feel it's their responsibility to author legislation against programs within the Creek Nation after they receive complaints, mostly unfounded, from a handful of Creek Citizens. I remember speaking to a few of our National Council members about the re-appointment of Judge Moore and one of them informed me she could'nt vote for him because he made a bad decision in one of her friends court case and that it was ultimately appealed to the Supreme Court and they over-ruled him. My response was that that was why we had the courts set up as we do and that also that Judge Moore has made hundreds, if not thousands, of rulings that were never appealed. Another NC member stated that Judge Moore had been here too long and that he did'nt like Judge Moore personally. That, my fellow creeks, is how our NC makes decisions. If you will look back at the last 4-6 years you will see that the NC has done NOTHING but fight the administration and try to write legislation that repeals laws pertaining to specific programs within the CN that they don't like and try to place control under their purview. They have not brought economic development or created any jobs.the majority of our NC listen to a minority of our citizens to make changes. I would suggest that Fife make another run for Chief so that he can see that the majority of our citizens do NOT support him. Mvto!
The Creek citizens government is being dismantled by certain council members and who is going to stop the madness. If no one does nothing, one cannot expect much in the coming years for Mvskoke Nation and all citizens. Sit back and watch the tribe fall or step up and save the Nation.Take control and take back the Nation now.
I'll help. what do you want to do?
There are so many issues that should haunt those NC members who forego the old "for the good of the Nation" rhetoric they like to utter. There are four issues just from this year that will be their downfall:
1. Audits of Community/Casinos
2. Trade and Commerce
3. Light Horse Chief blood quantum requirement.
4. Blindly following Fife, Tiger and Barnett to tribal detriment, and those 3 should be self-eliminating.
Like I say, there are many issues prior to this year which we have documentation on.
I'm like the proverbial elephant in that I will not forget.
HAVE YOU HEARD? Today, those 2 Rogers are to be in OKC to meet with Scott Meachem, to negotiate MCN's tobacco compact. Can you imagine those 2 trying to be professional?
1st of their jobs will be an attempt to soften the image of George Tiger's visit (he recently took upon himself) to try to make a deal with Scott Meachem. That turned into a farce.
These 2 NC members and the A. G. are not and have not been designated our Tribal Emissaries and they have no authority to do compacts/contracts. Only the Chief can do that. That is unless they are working on a plan to change that law, and remove it from the authority of the Chief as they are doing with other issues.
That's funny.I bet they, The state have a big laugh.LOL myself.